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Thread: Obama Scandal

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    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Obama Scandal

    So, yeah.....they screwed up royal huh? I mean, for all the Bush bashing (he was an idiot, no doubt) - this is a pretty impressive stream of corruption, no?
    Last edited by TheLeviathan; 05-15-2013 at 11:21 PM.

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    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Yeesh. It will be interesting to see how it plays out as we find out more. Pretty ugly stuff.

  3. #3
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    I'm not sure Obama realizes saying "I found out like the rest of you" is all that reassuring. Either you're lying or you are incompetent. I'm really hoping for "lying"...but that sort of reinforces who the source of this is.

    I doubt he'll ever get pinned as having a direct connection, but it's clear this sort of thing is being allowed/encouraged in the administration. It's scary the depths of it already.

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    Which of the three are you referring to? I assume the IRS scandal? Yeah, that is quite unfortunate. What is interesting is that the behavior of the groups was probably illegal, and at best was an attempt to muck up and skirt campaign finance laws. I don't think those groups were unique in that, just that they were specifically targeted for extra scrutiny. What is also interesting is that the IRS head at the time was a Bush appointee.

    My ultimate hope is that this will finally lead to some meaningful tax reform. I'm not holding my breath.

    As for the other two:

    The AP scandal strikes me as just another consequence of power that is ceded to the executive in times of war. Luckily this war will go on indefinitely.

    I think Benghazi is the most overrated scandal of my lifetime. It is ultimately going to be seen as a turf battle between the State Department and CIA, which each trying to blame the other for the initial security failure.
    Papers...business papers.

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    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    I rank Benghazi well below the others too, but in the context of other actions by the administration, it certainly doesn't help their cause that it it was a simple mistake.

    I'm referring more to the AP and IRS scandals. Both deliberate invasions of privacy and misuse of power to intimidate. Benghazi, Woodward, and others are more the smoke that indicates there is a fire, those two scandals are the fires.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    I rank Benghazi well below the others too, but in the context of other actions by the administration, it certainly doesn't help their cause that it it was a simple mistake.

    I'm referring more to the AP and IRS scandals. Both deliberate invasions of privacy and misuse of power to intimidate. Benghazi, Woodward, and others are more the smoke that indicates there is a fire, those two scandals are the fires.
    The AP scandal is going to be interesting to see how it plays out. As far as I can tell what they did was perfectly legitimate and is covered by legislation that has passed since 9/11. The press has been way too deferential and congress hasn't been much more than a rubber stamp when it comes to expanding executive power. This is only the tip of the iceberg of what could happen down the line, all in the name of war and security.

    I generally see the Obama administration as restrained and noble on these issues relative to what an administration could be. I am quite concerned going forward.
    Papers...business papers.

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    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drjim View Post
    I generally see the Obama administration as restrained and noble on these issues relative to what an administration could be. I am quite concerned going forward.
    There have only been two administrations with this power and the abuse of it has steadily grown through both. I concur about the future and about it being technically legal, but this same administration has been outfront reassuring us that they won't overstep with their use of these powers. They were outwardly critical of the previous administration for far less.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drjim View Post
    I generally see the Obama administration as restrained and noble on these issues relative to what an administration could be. I am quite concerned going forward.
    I think the Obama administration has taken the war on terror excuse and gone farther with it than even Bush did. The NDAA is terrifying. Obama is absolutely horrible on civil rights.

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    I should clarify. I'm not saying the Obama Administration has been good on this, just more restrained than I expected. It will likely get worse.

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    In the rush to take away our rights, passed under the previous administration, this invasion of our privacy was inevitable. I will find the irony of the right complaining about this to be quite humorous. They are the ones that love torture and Guantamo and profiling and other things, right? I think it is sad how everyone is so willing to give up their freedoms in the name of "safety". What ever happend to give me liberty, or give me death?

    As for Bengahzi, who cares?

    As for the IRS scandal, that's a bad one. Really bad one. If we can't trust the government (and I'm not arguing we actually can) to be even handed in their treatment of groups (like, you know, how we've fairly treated socialist, communist, unions and other left wing groups over the last century), then our government needs to be cleaned up. At this point, it is not better than governments in other countries that we ridicule for being corrupt. I am disgusted by this, and people should go to jail over that. You know, like all those guys that ran military companies while Bush was president that stole money from the people....
    Lighten up Francis....

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    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    In the rush to take away our rights, passed under the previous administration, this invasion of our privacy was inevitable. I will find the irony of the right complaining about this to be quite humorous. They are the ones that love torture and Guantamo and profiling and other things, right? I think it is sad how everyone is so willing to give up their freedoms in the name of "safety". What ever happend to give me liberty, or give me death?
    Well said.

    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    As for Bengahzi, who cares?
    Nobody with a brain.

    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    As for the IRS scandal, that's a bad one. Really bad one. If we can't trust the government (and I'm not arguing we actually can) to be even handed in their treatment of groups (like, you know, how we've fairly treated socialist, communist, unions and other left wing groups over the last century), then our government needs to be cleaned up. At this point, it is not better than governments in other countries that we ridicule for being corrupt. I am disgusted by this, and people should go to jail over that. You know, like all those guys that ran military companies while Bush was president that stole money from the people....
    America has spent the past ten years not throwing the right people in jail. No war profiteers are in jail. No sleazy bank profiteers are in jail. Now, there will be no IRS officials in jail.

    But hey, we've got lots of poor black men in jail for slinging the drugs that white people want.

    That counts for something, right?

  12. #12
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    It's hard not to see these scandals as abuses of power rather than abuses of politics. The Presidency's reach, sway and responsibility have long gone unchecked, and its abuses defy partiality.

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    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    As far as the politics play out, the Democrats are fortunate that the midterms aren't this election cycle. Though, as abuses go none of these compare to the actual consequences or the sheer number of moving parts behind Bush's WMDs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    As far as the politics play out, the Democrats are fortunate that the midterms aren't this election cycle. Though, as abuses go none of these compare to the actual consequences or the sheer number of moving parts behind Bush's WMDs.
    Bah, sending a bunch of poor kids overseas to die pales compared to trying make only some organizations follow the law...*

    *if you can't recognize this for the sarcasm it is, sorry.....
    Lighten up Francis....

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    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    As far as the politics play out, the Democrats are fortunate that the midterms aren't this election cycle. Though, as abuses go none of these compare to the actual consequences or the sheer number of moving parts behind Bush's WMDs.
    Apples and oranges. And you know it, that's a pretty disengenuous argument Psuedo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drjim View Post
    Which of the three are you referring to? I assume the IRS scandal? Yeah, that is quite unfortunate. What is interesting is that the behavior of the groups was probably illegal,
    Not at all illegal. Maybe something certain politicians would like to see made illegal, but as the courts have ruled this is a freedom of speech issue. This is the way groups like this organize and raise funds. If the rules were different these groups would organize different, but they aren't gonna go about it the way John McCain and Harry Reid wish they would simply because that might seem more fair. McCain Fiengold was noble legislation but it didn't work and according to the courts it's not legal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    I rank Benghazi well below the others too, but in the context of other actions by the administration, it certainly doesn't help their cause that it it was a simple mistake.

    I'm referring more to the AP and IRS scandals. Both deliberate invasions of privacy and misuse of power to intimidate. Benghazi, Woodward, and others are more the smoke that indicates there is a fire, those two scandals are the fires.
    If Benghazi is what we would hope it is (nothing more then the talking points scandal) then I agree. The key question is why was ambassador Stevens in that location that day. Who sent him there, why was he told his purpose there was. I think I know what was going on in Benghazi and if you are willing to do your own research it's not that hard for you to figure out what was going on as well. If you still trust this president let him frame the facts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    In the rush to take away our rights, passed under the previous administration, this invasion of our privacy was inevitable. I will find the irony of the right complaining about this to be quite humorous.
    I suppose George Bush was a Republican but come on we complained about this stuff when it happened. Maybe not the partisan types but the tea party types sure did.

  19. #19
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Apples and oranges. And you know it, that's a pretty disengenuous argument Psuedo.
    You brought up Bush... What comparison were you inviting if not that abuse of power and influence?

    These scandals while falling under the Presidency are pretty far removed from the President and the Whitehouse. The Bureaucracy of the Presidency needs to be redistributed in away that creates checks and balances.
    Last edited by PseudoSABR; 05-21-2013 at 12:44 PM.

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    Senior Member All-Star Ultima Ratio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post

    Originally Posted by mike wants wins
    As for Bengahzi, who cares?





    Nobody with a brain.
    A majority of the country doesn't even know about it, because the MSM refused to cover it, now they are playing catch up.

    So, I care at least.

    Please stop the name calling and see your very own comment rules on this site.
    Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

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