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Thread: Obama Scandal

  1. #21
    Senior Member All-Star Ultima Ratio's Avatar
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    Eric Holder will fall before Obama, and only then if the incompetent republican leadership can put together an independent special prosecutor to get to the bottom of all these scandals.
    Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikecgrimes View Post
    If Benghazi is what we would hope it is (nothing more then the talking points scandal) then I agree. The key question is why was ambassador Stevens in that location that day. Who sent him there, why was he told his purpose there was. I think I know what was going on in Benghazi and if you are willing to do your own research it's not that hard for you to figure out what was going on as well. If you still trust this president let him frame the facts.
    I am very interested to hear what you think was "really" going on in Benghazi.
    Papers...business papers.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Ratio View Post
    A majority of the country doesn't even know about it, because the MSM refused to cover it, now they are playing catch up.

    So, I care at least.

    Please stop the name calling and see your very own comment rules on this site.
    The old "people aren't outraged because the MSM won't cover it" angle. I approve. I can only imagine how disappointed you must be with an institution you put so much trust in and admire like the MSM letting you and the whole country down.
    Papers...business papers.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Ratio View Post
    Eric Holder will fall before Obama, and only then if the incompetent republican leadership can put together an independent special prosecutor to get to the bottom of all these scandals.
    I'll save you the time and energy - not a whole lot is at the bottom of these scandals. They will consume some oxygen for the next couple of weeks because the Washington press is bored, and then they will move on to something else as equally mundane. For a couple of months after that some right wingers will keep hammering at them, gain no traction, and then blame the MSM for not covering them closely enough.
    Papers...business papers.

  5. #25
    Senior Member All-Star Ultima Ratio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drjim View Post
    I'll save you the time and energy - not a whole lot is at the bottom of these scandals. They will consume some oxygen for the next couple of weeks because the Washington press is bored, and then they will move on to something else as equally mundane. For a couple of months after that some right wingers will keep hammering at them, gain no traction, and then blame the MSM for not covering them closely enough.
    You are aware that many left-wingers are leading the charge now, right?

    Concerning the MSM, I'm not personally defrauded by their censorship of the news, but am very worried about low info votes being even less informed. I think only 40% of the country knows who the VP is.

    That is very scary for a republic.
    Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Ratio View Post
    You are aware that many left-wingers are leading the charge now, right?

    Concerning the MSM, I'm not personally defrauded by their censorship of the news, but am very worried about low info votes being even less informed. I think only 40% of the country knows who the VP is.

    That is very scary for a republic.
    I'm pretty sure this has nothing to do with the MSM. And this is not exactly a new phenomenon. The majority of the population has been stupid (and ill-informed) since the founding of the country, why would we expect anything different now?

    On your other point: left-wingers are indeed leading the charge for the AP situation because it involved the media directly, but it really won't last. My hope, as I said before, is that it leads to some awareness of and reining in of the power of the executive, but I'm not holding my breath. We have a never-ending war to fight!
    Papers...business papers.

  7. #27
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Ratio View Post
    A majority of the country doesn't even know about it, because the MSM refused to cover it, now they are playing catch up.

    So, I care at least.

    Please stop the name calling and see your very own comment rules on this site.
    So because the majority of the American public doesn't know about it, that somehow qualifies it as a scandal?

    The mainstream media sucked at their job. Film at eleven.

    And you have a very loose definition of "name calling". All I have to say in response is "ex post facto".

  8. #28
    Senior Member All-Star Ultima Ratio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    So because the majority of the American public doesn't know about it, that somehow qualifies it as a scandal?
    No. One wonders how your mind works, making enormous leaps of logic.

    You asked: "Who cares?"

    I don't know of many people who care about things they know not of. Only in your world.
    Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

  9. #29
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Ratio View Post
    No. One wonders how your mind works, making enormous leaps of logic.

    You asked: "Who cares?"

    I don't know of many people who care about things they know not of. Only in your world.
    So "many people don't know about it" has transformed into "no one knows about it". I know about it. Most of the posters in this thread apparently know about it. The GOP tried to use it as a wedge issue in the last election so apparently they knew about it. Thereby, anyone who followed the election knew about it.

    Lots of people know about it. In my observations, most who do not carry a partisan agenda do not care about it.

    And you really need to step off that high horse of yours. Five posts ago, you accused me of insulting you after the fact while this post can easily be interpreted as an insult aimed directly at me.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Ratio View Post
    You are aware that many left-wingers are leading the charge now, right?

    Concerning the MSM, I'm not personally defrauded by their censorship of the news, but am very worried about low info votes being even less informed. I think only 40% of the country knows who the VP is.

    That is very scary for a republic.
    Like the Koch brothers trying to buy every major newspaper, so they can control the message? It is scary indeed. I doubt the mainstream media can survive what they will do to it if they get control. Between Fox's bias and CNN's ineptitude, who even trusts the MSM at this point?
    Lighten up Francis....

  11. #31
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    When I was in college, I wrote my senior paper on the differences between the Johnson, Nixon and Clinton impeachments. One thing that bothered me was, at the beginning of Watergate, most Americans didn't know what it was and later, most Americans still didn't care. It was a constant GOP talking point against the Post. So I'm not sure arguing that people don't know/don't care about something doesn't mean it shouldn't be a real issue. Frankly, it shouldn't even be part of the discussion.

    That said, Benghazi is more an effort to try and prevent Hilary Clinton to run than anything else.

    AP and IRS might be more.

  12. #32
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    When I was in college, I wrote my senior paper on the differences between the Johnson, Nixon and Clinton impeachments. One thing that bothered me was, at the beginning of Watergate, most Americans didn't know what it was and later, most Americans still didn't care. It was a constant GOP talking point against the Post. So I'm not sure arguing that people don't know/don't care about something doesn't mean it shouldn't be a real issue. Frankly, it shouldn't even be part of the discussion.
    My point is that the people who do know about it (and don't have a partisan reason to pursue the issue) generally seem pretty apathetic about it. To me, that means one of two things:

    1. There's really nothing to get too worked up about because it's just another case of a departmental pissing contest.

    or

    2. We're so worn down by various instances of government dumb****ery (largely because of the absolutely awful things done by the previous administration but not excluding this administration, either) that we just can't get worked up about a "scandal" of this (probably lack of) magnitude.

    Almost everyone I know who keeps a level head about politics, both leftist and righty, feels the former. And if there truly is a scandal in there somewhere, I have the feeling that the people trumpeting the case for the latter often turned a blind eye to the absolute shenanigans pulled from 2001-2009 because it was "their guy". Maybe I'm in the apathetic camp... Dunno. But after spending the last few years of the Bush administration just shaking my head in disgust, I'm really having a hard time getting fired up about Benghazi because it's not even close to the level of privacy invasion, detainment, and pure nonsense pulled by Bush (which has sadly continued under Obama).

    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    AP and IRS might be more.
    Agreed. I heard about both of these situations and just shook my head. It's sad that I keep my expectations of politicians so low that they barely register and they still manage to let me down.

  13. #33
    Senior Member All-Star Ultima Ratio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    And you really need to step off that high horse of yours.
    But you've shown us how to ride so beautifully. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Yes, "no one with a brain" and people who disagree with you "have no conscience" are tame but your most recent attempt at decorum. I only treat a couple posters this way, following their lead in the futile attempt to put a mirror up - but all too ofter we love what we see regardless.
    Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

  14. #34
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Ratio View Post
    But you've shown us how to ride so beautifully. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Yes, "no one with a brain" and people who disagree with you "have no conscience" are tame but your most recent attempt at decorum. I only treat a couple posters this way, following their lead in the futile attempt to put a mirror up - but all too ofter we love what we see regardless.
    Let it go, man. If you feel I'm descending into the realm of personal insults (even though not once have I aimed anything resembling a personal insult at you), ignore my posts.

    But what isn't acceptable is thinking that it's okay to start directly insulting another poster because they made a vague reference that you interpreted as an insult aimed at you, even though you hadn't posted in the thread yet.

    A refresher of the forum rules:
    Furthermore, we expect each member to treat other members with respect. This doesn’t mean just not making personal attacks. It means giving them the benefit of the doubt. It means not being deliberately combative. It means turning the other cheek sometimes, even when you’re not being treated with respect. We expect this because we believe it encourages civil analysis and debate.
    I turned the other cheek in the gay marriage thread and opted to leave instead of continuing a pointless debate with you, one that was bordering on personal insults as you repeatedly questioned my ability to form a logical argument.

    Now I suggest you do the same.

  15. #35
    Twins Moderator All-Star ChiTownTwinsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Ratio View Post
    But you've shown us how to ride so beautifully.
    Actually, he has. As a moderator/administrator of this site, and dealing with all the variant personalities and discussions, I think he's led a pretty good example of being fair and open-minded, and given quite a bit of leeway when others wanted to take a more 'prudish' route.

    Not that he needs me to speak for him, just saying, from one who reads quite a bit here.

  16. #36
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiTownTwinsFan View Post
    Actually, he has. As a moderator/administrator of this site, and dealing with all the variant personalities and discussions, I think he's led a pretty good example of being fair and open-minded, and given quite a bit of leeway when others wanted to take a more 'prudish' route.

    Not that he needs me to speak for him, just saying, from one who reads quite a bit here.
    Brock isn't the Czar of us anymore...quit kissing up.

  17. #37
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Banning Levi in three... two...

  18. #38
    Twins Moderator All-Star ChiTownTwinsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Brock isn't the Czar of us anymore...quit kissing up.
    Pfft ... he already knows I'd vote for him if he ran for office despite his skeletons ... even though I'm a bleeding heart. I just think he's pretty fair.

  19. #39
    The “nobody with a brain” comment was foolish and unfortunately the language of debate these days. The civility of discourse (for now) exceeds that of BYTO in its final years, but the generosity in labeling folks crazy, mentally challenged, etc needs adjusting if the assessors seek to retain any credibility. If you don’t agree with views of another, so be it. Intelligent, decent people can have opposing views. I understand the opposition to my views very well. They make sense on the surface and may have once been my own positions. However, shallowness in thought and depth of emotion permeate many of those stances. I have emotions too and compassion for homosexuals. But these things called values, or standards if you prefer, come first. Values should be held in greater esteem than personal preference, popular opinion, and compassion which, as an overarching standard, quite often produces detrimental consequences.



    Out of curiosity, where does Benghazi rate in comparison to Abu Ghraib on the scandal scale?

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by drjim View Post
    I am very interested to hear what you think was "really" going on in Benghazi.
    It was Fast and Furious times ten. You know the first major scandal the media covered?

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