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Thread: International Talk: Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez

  1. #21
    Senior Member Triple-A Monkeypaws's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    And if this is true... I think the Twins are out. I'd give it to him; it would certainly justify the lower budgets over the next few seasons, but no way TR and company does.

    Cuban free agent Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez could sign for $60 million - Over the Monster
    Out, and rightly so - that is mad money!

  2. #22
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    I don't know anything about this guy so I'm assuming he's a legit potential front line starter who can pitch in the majors next year. With that said, I'm actually going to agree with Mike Wants Wins and say the Twins should try to get him. Unlike Sanchez, for instance, he'd be in his prime seasons at the same time Sano et al are ready to contribute. 4 or 5 years and 60m is doable. A potential rotation with him, Meyer, May, Worley, Gibson would go nicely with our future lineups.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkeypaws View Post
    Out, and rightly so - that is mad money!
    Right but that's just your pride talking. The Twins won't be handcuffed by overpaying and missing on a guy at this point. This team will not be anywhere near payroll limitations for a long time.


    Is it 4 years at $15? 5 years at $12 million? 6 years at $10? The first two options pay the highest per year but the risk is minimized by the years. For four or even five years the Twins will have no payroll concerns. That is not too much of a risk, particularly considering very few usable free agent pitchers come available any longer and they go for much more than this. Besides, I am so tired of the Twins nickle and diming the free agent market. I'd rather take a shot at a front line starter at $12 million per season than play it safe with three or four replacement level vets like this team always does.

    This front office needs to seriously start asking themselves why they'd rather sign a replacement level group of players like Correia, Pelfrey and Carroll as opposed to one pitcher for the same amount. Here we are sitting in June and all three of those guys could already be replaced by league minimum salaried players in AAA. This free agency tactic is much more monetarily wasteful but the Twins front office is blind to this fact.
    Last edited by nicksaviking; 06-27-2013 at 10:12 PM.

  4. #24
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    My guess is it exceeds $60 mil. By a lot.
    Papers...business papers.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Triple-A Monkeypaws's Avatar
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    Not pride - common sense.

    Being a stud outside the major leagues is awesome, but not a secure investment at that level. There's a Dice K for every Yu Darvish, a Nishi for every Ichiro.

    I prefer the approach they've taken in Latin America - get them young, and throw maybe 3 million at a Sano.

    It's all moot, because the Twins would likely not win this bidding war anyways.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkeypaws View Post
    Not pride - common sense.

    Being a stud outside the major leagues is awesome, but not a secure investment at that level. There's a Dice K for every Yu Darvish, a Nishi for every Ichiro.

    I prefer the approach they've taken in Latin America - get them young, and throw maybe 3 million at a Sano.

    It's all moot, because the Twins would likely not win this bidding war anyways.
    I agree that they likely won't be willing to win the bidding war, but that doesn't mean they aren't able to. Still, as I mentioned in the previous post, making a mistake on a big signing will not harm this club as they won't be anywhere near payroll limitations.

    Why the hesitation about making a mistake when it's an affordable one? Besides, they can no longer throw $3 million at a Sano, there are league imposed budget limitations on nearly every international player aside from a guy in this exact situation.

  7. #27
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    you could get around some of it by giving the kid a nice signing bonus. That would lower the yearly amount.

    As I said before, I'd give him the money, but it's pretty easy for me to spend the Pohlad's money.

    I do think in terms of calculated risks, this one makes a bit more sense (assuming they think he's ML ready). He's 26 if I remember correctly, so he's a bit lower risk (and cheaper) than Sanchez or Grienke. That contract will take him through is prime years and fits nicely in with the next wave.

    I'd probably rely on the scouts pretty heavily. If the kid is throwing mid 90s and locating his plus pitches, I'd do it.

  8. #28
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    It's a risky move but people were talking about giving guys like Saunders 20-25M/3yrs. If the scouting reports actually match his stuff then 60/5yrs is not a bad deal. This team needs to add pitching talent that can help the team long term. Picking up non-elite 30+ yr olds for 8-10M/yr doesn't really do much long term. A 26 yr old with pretty good stuff would be a huge get for the Twins even if it is risky.

  9. #29
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    It's hard to gauge whether or not this is a good idea to pursue or not, I don't know if the $60M is for 3 yrs, 5 yrs, or what. On one hand you could be buying a front of hand rotation starter for less than market value, but OTOH you could be out 60M for the next Dice-K. I'd guess I'd wager more towards the former based on some recent history) not including Nishi). Cespedes stepped right in for the A's, for example. BTW it's a good sign the Nishi debacle hasn't stopped them from at least considering International free agents.

    Is love to see the Twins get him but I think the chances are pretty slim.

  10. #30
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkeypaws View Post
    There's a Dice K for every Yu Darvish, .
    FYI:
    Matsuzaka
    a. won a world series with his team (Boston)
    b. went 18-3 with a sub 3 ERA

    2 things that Darvish has not done yet in the major leagues.

    Dice-K all in all has had a better MLB career than Darvish. In 2-3 years this might change, but this is nothing like Nishioka and Ichiro...
    -----
    Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
    http://tenthinningstretch.blogspot.com/
    twitter: @thrylos98

  11. #31
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    Peter Gammons is reporting that the Dodgers are preparing to offer Gonzalez a 5 year $50 million deal and he'll likely accept. That's lower than we have been speculating. If we assume the Twins would have to pay more, what would it take? 5 year $55 million? $60? It's a lot of money, but really not that pricey if he is your highest paid pitcher, and by a lot. I understand the reports indicate Ryan won't go for it but this is frustrating if true. $12 million per year easily fits in the budget for the next half decade.

  12. #32
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    I think the problem is, after nishi, they are gonna be a little leery on some of these established international guys. Just my thought.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    Peter Gammons is reporting that the Dodgers are preparing to offer Gonzalez a 5 year $50 million deal and he'll likely accept. That's lower than we have been speculating. If we assume the Twins would have to pay more, what would it take? 5 year $55 million? $60? It's a lot of money, but really not that pricey if he is your highest paid pitcher, and by a lot. I understand the reports indicate Ryan won't go for it but this is frustrating if true. $12 million per year easily fits in the budget for the next half decade.
    If we offered him $60 million what would stop the dodgers from turning around and upping their offer? I'm not saying this should stop us from doing it but as the dodgers proved with grienke, if they want someone they are going to get them.

  14. #34
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    Don't the Dodgers have something like 8 starting pitchers?

    I'm with Ruesse and the rest of the board on this...take a shot at someone like this rather spend $10mm each year on the Livan Hernandez, Ramon Ortiz, Mike Pelfrey, and Kevin Correias.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmb0252 View Post
    If we offered him $60 million what would stop the dodgers from turning around and upping their offer? I'm not saying this should stop us from doing it but as the dodgers proved with grienke, if they want someone they are going to get them.
    So the lesson is the Twins should never bid on anyone because the Dodgers can pay more? As mentioned above, the Dodgers already have ton of starting pitching candidates. They can certainly afford him, but perhaps they get to a price where they decide they don't need him considering their depth. The Twins don't have that luxery.

    Besides, if the Twins offered $60 and the Dodgers countered at that price and got him, isn't that a victory making another team pay $10 million more than they originally intended?

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    So the lesson is the Twins should never bid on anyone because the Dodgers can pay more? As mentioned above, the Dodgers already have ton of starting pitching candidates. They can certainly afford him, but perhaps they get to a price where they decide they don't need him considering their depth. The Twins don't have that luxery.

    Besides, if the Twins offered $60 and the Dodgers countered at that price and got him, isn't that a victory making another team pay $10 million more than they originally intended?
    I thought this funny money didn't matter.

  17. #37
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    We could front load the contract too with all of the money we have available. We could offer a 5 year 60 million with a 10 million signing bonus that gets paid out the first 2 years. so that we are only paying 10 million per season when the younger guys are starting to hit arbitration. I am not saying we'll win the bidding but its pretty chicken crap of the organization to back down because someone is getting market value all of the time.

    While one contract may be an overpay and I'll admit we don't want many of those. It wont kill our budget to take a chance and mess up every once and a while. That is why I don't blame the Nishi signing there wasn't much on the FA market for 2B that year (except they used that one as an excuse to trade Hardy and that was dumb cause in that instance you keep Hardy no questions). There is no one in the rotation I would mind the Twins trading because of signing this guy.

    I'll even throw this out there, this signing won't cost us a draft pick either.

  18. #38
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    I'd argue this is a better use of our unspent resources that will exist over the next couple of seasons than anything else they can do. The kid has had a couple years off so not nearly as much mileage on the arm as some other pitchers his age. I know the Twins have scouted him, so if he passed those tests, I think they should do it... Plus, this doesn't count against any caps.

    Of course it's not my money.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    So the lesson is the Twins should never bid on anyone because the Dodgers can pay more? As mentioned above, the Dodgers already have ton of starting pitching candidates. They can certainly afford him, but perhaps they get to a price where they decide they don't need him considering their depth. The Twins don't have that luxery.

    Besides, if the Twins offered $60 and the Dodgers countered at that price and got him, isn't that a victory making another team pay $10 million more than they originally intended?
    I'm pretty sure if you are asking me if the lesson is to never bid against the Dodgers you obviously misread my post. I even said that it shouldn't stop us. All I was saying was that simply saying offer him a little more money doesn't guarantee we will get him. This isn't a Japanese player where you bid and the highest bid wins. He is a FA so teams can counter your offer.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmb0252 View Post
    I'm pretty sure if you are asking me if the lesson is to never bid against the Dodgers you obviously misread my post. I even said that it shouldn't stop us. All I was saying was that simply saying offer him a little more money doesn't guarantee we will get him. This isn't a Japanese player where you bid and the highest bid wins. He is a FA so teams can counter your offer.
    I didn't misread, just mis-interpreted. I didn't mean to imply we weren't on the same page, it appears we are.

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