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Thread: Miami Kryptonite?

  1. #21
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    I guess. I suppose you'll be banned now. Nice knowing you.
    Gunarthor... Because you made fun of the process... You have been banned for 3 seconds.

    The Banning started at Hour 20 Minute 29 and 13 Seconds.
    It concluded at Hour 20 Minute 29 and 19 Seconds.

    Your account has been credited for the extra 3 seconds served.

    A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

  2. #22
    Senior Member All-Star LaBombo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    I suppose you'll be banned now.
    No, the forum still has no rule against being wrong.
    Last edited by LaBombo; 06-27-2013 at 11:10 AM.

  3. #23
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    What happened to drjim's post that read:
    The deletion comment, a few posts above your question, reads:

    This message has been deleted by ashburyjohn.

    Reason
    Final sentence was a personal attack, contrary to Comments Policy #1


    I thought it would be self-explanatory. The TD Comments Policy is found at
    http://twinsdaily.com/minnesota-twin...nt-policy.html

    The specific item is #1, "Personal attacks or insults". His first two sentences were fine, as a critique. The last sentence violates policy; I would also add the personal observation that the post actually reads better if this sentence had been omitted. But I'm not going to get into the business of editing people's posts for them.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    The deletion comment, a few posts above your question, reads:

    This message has been deleted by ashburyjohn.

    Reason
    Final sentence was a personal attack, contrary to Comments Policy #1


    I thought it would be self-explanatory. The TD Comments Policy is found at
    http://twinsdaily.com/minnesota-twin...nt-policy.html

    The specific item is #1, "Personal attacks or insults". His first two sentences were fine, as a critique. The last sentence violates policy; I would also add the personal observation that the post actually reads better if this sentence had been omitted. But I'm not going to get into the business of editing people's posts for them.
    "Not exactly a shock Gleeman would do that." violates TD policy? It's not an attack on another poster but rather an attack on the credibility of a twins based writer. I assume all attacks on Souhan being a hack are off limits, too? Or Reusse being negative?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    "Not exactly a shock Gleeman would do that." violates TD policy? It's not an attack on another poster but rather an attack on the credibility of a twins based writer. I assume all attacks on Souhan being a hack are off limits, too? Or Reusse being negative?
    I don't especially care, and perhaps it was poorly written, but I thought it was a critique on his writing style and the way he forms articles, not an attack on him personally.
    Papers...business papers.

  6. #26
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    "Not exactly a shock Gleeman would do that." violates TD policy?
    Yes. Move on.

    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    I assume all attacks on Souhan being a hack are off limits, too? Or Reusse being negative?
    I don't care if other attacks have gone without intervention; it's been 15 years since my youngest child was 5 years old and used that kind of rebuttal.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    Yes. Move on.
    For future reference, what would have been appropriate there? Or is there no appropriate way to critique a public writer's style or content?
    Papers...business papers.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    Yes. Move on.



    I don't care if other attacks have gone without intervention; it's been 15 years since my youngest child was 5 years old and used that kind of rebuttal.
    What rebuttal? I'm honestly trying to figure out where the limits are. Frankly your last sentence seems to be more insulting than anything drjim posted and it was directed at a poster.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Double-A
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverslugger View Post
    Aaron Gleeman noted in his blog on Tuesday that the Twins basically stink against everyone other than the White Sox and Brewers. So, it may not be just a Marlins thing.
    I'll accept some blame for putting words in Gleeman's mouth that weren't there. He posted stats (w-l record) on his blog for the Twins versus other teams. I do believe I was correct in assuming he was implying that he Twins have stunk against everyone other than the pale hose and the Brewers. Obviously, they haven't. They definitely have stunk it up when playing the vaunted Marlins though. Just glad we're done with them! Good Riddance!

  10. #30
    Owner All-Star John Bonnes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    What rebuttal? I'm honestly trying to figure out where the limits are. Frankly your last sentence seems to be more insulting than anything drjim posted and it was directed at a poster.
    I'll reply to this honest question, just so we're clear. I'm often asked by people who have been banned or whose posts have been deleted "I just want to know where the line is." Or "I just want to know what the limits are." Here is the answer:

    We are working in a very nebulous and dynamic environment. We are figuring out our policy for maintaining civil discussion as we go along. There are five moderators with different opinions. Every time each of those moderators checks in, they're in a different state of mind. And finally, we all have limits to the time we can donate to these forums.

    So there is no line. There is no limit. There are a lot of them, and they're always changing and that's the way it has to be. So just stay the hell away from it.

    And frankly, that shouldn't be so hard. In fact, I can objectively PROVE it isn't that hard. Here you go:
    - We have 2757 users right now on Twins Daily.
    - Every day, we have about 300 active posters.
    - We keep needing to delete stuff or warn about 5 to 10 members.

    When about 97% or our community can consistently stay away from the line, I'm confident that the other 3% can figure out a way to, too.

    And if you are unfairly penalized - deal with it like a grown up. Re-do your deleted post in a more civil manner so you can still make the point. Sit out of the forum for three days (or seven days) and just read things. Maybe see how others stay away from the line. Or enjoy another site. Or do something else. You'll live.

    Let me share one last thing. I've talked to several people who run national sites much bigger that TD and here's how they do things - they see a post that makes them think they probably don't want that guy on the board and they just block the IP address. They do not think twice about it. No deleted post. No warning. No temporary ban. This is common, because they just don't have the time (or, frankly, the incentive) to rehabilitate anyone who looks like a moron.

    When they told me that a year ago, I was aghast. It seemed arbitrary and unfair. Now, with as much time as I find having to moderate or explain the process of moderation to others, I'm a lot more sympathetic. To be exceptionally candid, my life would be a lot easier with permanent bans on about seven members. And as stretched as we are right now with time, that might be enough reason. That might be the new line.

    Again - this isn't that hard. Be civil. Leave your ego out of it. Don't try to "win". Stay away from the line.

  11. #31
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    John, I sympathize.......not sure who the 7 are, but just curious. Are they actually that bad, or is it that some members complain to you and others about negative posts in general? I've tried to change my tone the last week or so, after reading some threads and watching them degrade into directions I did not like. But I'd hate for "generally negative" posters to be banned just because some members don't like what I would call "honest" discussions, and others would call negativity.......

    that said, I'm re-reading every post I make now, and sometimes just hitting cancel, because sometimes continuing the debate has lost its fun factor.....
    Lighten up Francis....

  12. #32
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    To be clear, I'm not asking who the 7 are (and I bet that's a number like, say, 130 is a number......), I was curious about the other part....
    Lighten up Francis....

  13. #33
    Owner All-Star John Bonnes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    John, I sympathize.......not sure who the 7 are, but just curious. Are they actually that bad, or is it that some members complain to you and others about negative posts in general? I've tried to change my tone the last week or so, after reading some threads and watching them degrade into directions I did not like. But I'd hate for "generally negative" posters to be banned just because some members don't like what I would call "honest" discussions, and others would call negativity.......

    that said, I'm re-reading every post I make now, and sometimes just hitting cancel, because sometimes continuing the debate has lost its fun factor.....
    I would say some are negative and some are positive. What I would say that they have in common is that they seem to be driven to "win" a debate, they tend to use a lot of rhetoric that inflames rather than extinguishes.

    The members I value are the ones who are just the opposite, and there are a lot more of them. They play peacekeeper. The separate themselves personally from debate. They're willing to concede when they are presented alternate evidence. They seek a deeper level of truth from when they joined the thread, rather than trying to win a thread. It has nothing to do with positivity or negativity.

  14. #34
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    John, I understand your problems and it's your website so arbitrariness is fine. But it is a problem. I've been posting on here over a year without any issues and then I got banned twice in one month. The first time was after I literally cut n pasted a post from 6 months earlier onto a new thread and the second time was after I had discussed things and cleared it with a different moderator but then I was banned by another moderator. In this thread drjim's post seemed perfectly fine to the majority of people and a moderator was flat out insulting to those who put up the question. Tis chaotic. So arbitrariness is fine but you shouldn't be surprised when people feel confused.

    I would also point out that TD has fun little icons that are almost inevitably insulting if used.

    and

    I'm trying to ignore most posts now and just hang out in the minor league section which generally has good discussions and good insights from Seth and Jeremy.

  15. #35
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    Just to add to what gunnarthor said, I rarely let myself be drawn into a debate (in fact, I often just don't respond to a response to me even if I think the respondant was clearly wrong) -- some of that is because I'm lazy, some of that is because I don't want to seem like a total idiot, some of it is just because I 'm getting old enough that I don't appreciate conflict the way I did 20 years ago.

    But I also find myself posting here less and less and I find myself censoring myself more -- even sometimes when the comment seems perfectly valid. In some ways, I feel beat up by the constant references to the comment policy, moderation and the types of imbroglios that developed above.

    In general, I favor less censorship. And just as commenters need to be more careful about what they say, moderators need to think more than twice before jumping in as well.

    For me, a lot of the "fun" is going out of TD. I guess if you are looking to up your journalistic reputations, that may be good but it isn't why I came to TD in the first place.

  16. #36
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    Thanks for the response, John. I mostly enjoy coming here, but I agree with JB, some kind of fun is not here that I think should be here. I can't really describe it.....

    Overall, good site, enjoy coming here, most posters are good posters.
    Lighten up Francis....

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post

    For me, a lot of the "fun" is going out of TD. I guess if you are looking to up your journalistic reputations, that may be good but it isn't why I came to TD in the first place.
    A lot of fun went out of TD about the same time that "Independent" and "Irreverent" were dropped from the TD motto.

  18. #38
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post

    In general, I favor less censorship.
    Agree.

  19. #39
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    John, I understand your problems and it's your website so arbitrariness is fine. But it is a problem.
    Exactly. It's like the wild west with 5 sheriffs having their own arbitrary set of rules. 90% of the amusement in game threads could be construed as violations if someone wanted. Like (and I pick on ashbury here because I respect his contributions) one moderator occassionally posting an underage javelin thrower for sex appeal. But yet if no one has an axe to grind, nothing is done. Which I understand, but is no less confusing and frustrating to operate in. Then the policy just becomes blanket justification for to grind those axes.

  20. #40
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    FWIW, the moderator sent me a private message with an explanation for why he deleted the post. I'm satisfied with what he wrote.
    Papers...business papers.

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