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Thread: Sano sitting for a few days after how he handled himself hitting homerun

  1. #81
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    roger, Sano did pimp a HR in Cedar Rapids last year and it resulted in some players getting in one anothers' faces a bit. Words were particularly exchanged between the Kernels catcher and Sano (though I wouldn't bet money either one really understood what the other was saying, given the language barrier involved). But there was no brawl, as such.

    jokin, since you chided TFIP for "liking" my post, I guess you're suggesting my view is among those "extremes." Guess we'll agree to disagree. I don't think it's extreme to say that, from what I've seen of him so far, I don't much care for the way Sano behaves in this area and since I see no evidence of it being likely to change, he probably won't be a player I have any particular affection for outside of whatever value he may bring statistically.

    nicksaviking, I do take issue with your last paragraph. First of all, as has been pointed out, this is not a case of "an" overconfident HR celebration. It's not a single incident, it's the most recent in a number of similar such demonstrations. Those multiple incidents... or even just a single incident, for that matter... would certainly be "evidence" of an attitude problem. Not proof, perhaps, but one's behavior is certainly evidence of one's attitude.

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  2. #82
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    I am a bit more tolerant than many when it comes to "showboating"--but let's be blunt he isn't Miguel Cabrera, yet! Being a stud in minor leagues isn't nearly the accomplishment as in the majors. Considering his "failure rate" a subdued celebration is more appropriate. Besides is hitting a HR of that specific pitcher all that noteworthy anyway?

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD Buhr View Post
    nicksaviking, I do take issue with your last paragraph. First of all, as has been pointed out, this is not a case of "an" overconfident HR celebration. It's not a single incident, it's the most recent in a number of similar such demonstrations. Those multiple incidents... or even just a single incident, for that matter... would certainly be "evidence" of an attitude problem. Not proof, perhaps, but one's behavior is certainly evidence of one's attitude.
    You've seen him first hand so your assement has a bolder footing, but you mention this is one of a number of demonstrations. I would then assume the demonstrations are all on-field showboating related?

    I'm not defending Sano, but I don't think his bragadocious HR behavior neccissarily translates to off field issues. As one poster mentioned, Killebrew was known to admire his HR swing. The ESPN tribute showed a usually pretty pokey Killebrew getting out of the batter's box. Particularly check the 1:38 mark.

    Tribute to Harmon Killebrew (RIP) - YouTube

    Check out 1:41 on this Thome highlight:

    Jim Thome Career Highlights - YouTube

    How would that bat toss fly with the Twins brass?

    I'm not saying Sano is a good guy, but chronic or not, I'm going to need more than his HR trot to make that decision.

  4. #84
    Senior Member Triple-A Sconnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    I don't think sitting him for a couple of games is going to set back his career or hurt his development. It seems appropriate. Actions like this have caused some pretty big dustups recently... If it happens in the pros, it's the type of thing that can 5 and 10 game suspensions for multiple players... and injuries on top of that.
    Willihammer was worried about getting beaned would set him back, not getting benched.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    How you respond to "bad luck" is also part of growing as a ballplayer. And frankly, so is how you respond to being benched for a few days.

    This episode and the resulting benching of Sano may very well tell us (and the Twins) a lot more about Sano than we know now.

    I don't want them to take away all of his attitude. But there are players with a lot of attitude who don't showboat. Learning where that line lies is part of his maturation as a ballplayer.

    And I want to reiterate my point from the end of my 2nd post. Modern media magnifies all of this in ways that we just wouldn't have seen in the past.
    I think based on all the evidence presented, we can now both agree that the "struggling" supposition as a reason for his behavior has no merit. This behavior is evidently part of who he is throughout his professional career. I would be most interested in evidence being presented in how other teams have dealt with up-and-coming phenoms in similar situations. Especially one at his age and impoverished background.

    As many others have stated, Harmon and many others have been guilty of the long, self-admiring pause at the plate after going yard. Some are beloved and model teammates and citizens, others, like Barry Bonds are outright pariahs. Again, he's 20, with almost singularly unique talent, most Twins fans are willing to put up with some attitude and a wait for more maturation if it means having spectacularly good talent on the field and being a significant cog in winning championships.

    I would hope that Twins management assumes the role of Father-Figure concerning disciplinary issues and continue to let it be known to Miguel, that like a Father, the Twins will continue to "love" and care for Sano's continued developmental well-being unconditionally, knowing that, like a Father, no matter how many, or bad the mistakes might be, they still have his "back", at all times.

  6. #86
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    nick, all I've personally observed is the HR pimping and the immediate fallout from that last year when he not only pimped the HR, but got in the catcher's face when he dared to express displeasure with Sano having done so. I also wrote about how he was patiently signing autographs for fans before the game, on the road, too... so I'm not saying he's some kind of "bad person."

    There's a time and place for celebrating a HR and I don't even have a particular issue with a little excessive celebrating. A pitcher knocks you down and you get up and take him yard? Yeah... take as long as you friggin like to get around the bases. Make the SOB stand and watch you circle for 10 minutes for all I care.

    Better yet, win an important game with that HR or at least put your team ahead in that game, then a little bit of pride showing as you circle is just fine with me. Win a World Series game with a HR and, hell, I'll come down on the field and stand next to you and we'll watch that ball sail together before you start trotting!

    But dude, your team was behind when you came up and they're still behind when you reach home plate? Pimping that is doing nothing but saying, "hey everyone look at how great I am. I hit a meaningless HR off a pitcher who nobody will ever remember in a minor league game, but damn I'm good!" Are we really saying that causing a blip closer to the midpoint of a WPA chart for a AA game is grounds for showboating now? Not for me. And I'm just not a big fan of players, regardless of talent, who appear to be more about personal glory than winning games.

    Covering the Cedar Rapids Kernels for
    MetroSportsReport.comwhile my alter-ego, Jim Crikket, opines about the Twins and Kernels at Knuckleballsblog.com.

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  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD Buhr View Post
    roger, Sano did pimp a HR in Cedar Rapids last year and it resulted in some players getting in one anothers' faces a bit. Words were particularly exchanged between the Kernels catcher and Sano (though I wouldn't bet money either one really understood what the other was saying, given the language barrier involved). But there was no brawl, as such.

    jokin, since you chided TFIP for "liking" my post, I guess you're suggesting my view is among those "extremes." Guess we'll agree to disagree. I don't think it's extreme to say that, from what I've seen of him so far, I don't much care for the way Sano behaves in this area and since I see no evidence of it being likely to change, he probably won't be a player I have any particular affection for outside of whatever value he may bring statistically.

    nicksaviking, I do take issue with your last paragraph. First of all, as has been pointed out, this is not a case of "an" overconfident HR celebration. It's not a single incident, it's the most recent in a number of similar such demonstrations. Those multiple incidents... or even just a single incident, for that matter... would certainly be "evidence" of an attitude problem. Not proof, perhaps, but one's behavior is certainly evidence of one's attitude.
    My point was every team has fans who have favorites, beloveds, pariahs and mehs. You seem to be saying that you have decided that, at age 20, Sano is destined, no....pre-determined to fall into the pariah category that you will be forced to put up with as long as he's producing. That, to me, is an extreme position in terms of personal characterization to take.

    Manny being Manny can be distracting to downright annoying, even to his own team's fans. His tenure's at Cleveland and Boston both lasted 8 years apiece- so I guess that shows how long before a welcome is worn out. Of course, a .937 career post-season OPS with 29 HRs helps keep the Welcome Mat out a little longer.

    All I'm saying is, let's not presumptively conclude that Miguel is destined to be Manny behaviorally. I, for one, am willing to put up with some level of annoyance and maturation issues to reignite a positive buzz about this currently moribund franchise's on-field return to relevancy rather than laughing-stock.
    Last edited by jokin; 07-26-2013 at 01:18 PM.

  8. #88
    JC I'd "like" your last post but I fear someone on my iggy list may pitch a fit over it.

  9. #89
    Super Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    He's 20, 20 year olds do impulsive, self indulgent things, I see no reason to believe this is something that will necessarily continue, or hold him back for that matter. I also don't believe that if the team tries to get him to tone down the cockiness that it takes his edge away, that's an entirely different thing altogether. He's not going to turn into some Punch and Judy just because a team doesn't want him to show opponents up, please.

  10. #90
    Trying to determine what kind of person 20 year old Miguel Sano will be in the coming years based off of watching him play in a game or two and watching a couple of fuzzy youtube videos is pretty silly.

    I have no problem with sitting him but, as has been said several times in this thread, Harmon Killebrew did this ALL THE TIME. And he's widely considered one of the most likeable human beings to ever put on a uniform.

    I'm not saying there are racial undertones to certain responses here but I would like to see an identical response if Kepler ever pimps a HR or if Kohl Stewart goes all Big Z after striking out a guy to end an inning.

  11. #91
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    Why is it that a professional athlete, or even a college athlete, is considered "a kid," but a 20-year old in some normal walk of life, say, guy who works in an office and gets in a bar fight, isn't considered a kid? Just a pet peeve of mine...

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beezer07 View Post
    Why is it that a professional athlete, or even a college athlete, is considered "a kid," but a 20-year old in some normal walk of life, say, guy who works in an office and gets in a bar fight, isn't considered a kid? Just a pet peeve of mine...
    I think lots of people view them both as kids. Though, the whole legal adulthood thing gets in the way of how things shake out in the normal world.

  13. #93
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    jokin, I don't think I've indicated anything is "pre-determined," unless nothing that a player does prior to his debut with the Twins counts for anything. If his behavior in this area doesn't change, he's not going to be a guy I have any particular affinity for. If the behavior changes by the time he's a Twin, terrific. I'd love to see that kind of maturity. But based on the three instances that I know of in roughly the past 12 months' time, I wouldn't bet money on it. It doesn't mean I won't cheer him on. Hell, I cheered for AJ when he was a Twin and that's just one example of many players I didn't particularly like, but had no qualms about rooting for when they wore a Twins uniform. Guess I never realized that was an extreme position.

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  14. #94
    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
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    Haven't seen this linked here yet (apologies if I missed it). Reusse's column today sheds some additional light on the situation, and it's not good.

    Twins need a coach from Latin America, pronto | StarTribune.com

    The identity of the pitcher had much to do with the extra pizazz Sano put into Tuesday's home run reaction. When confronted over this by Jeff Smith, the hard-nosed manager the Twins employ at New Britain, Sano basically told Smith that he would do what he choose after hitting home runs.

    General Manager Terry Ryan was watching New Britain. He talked to Sano after the game and didn't get a satisfactory response.


    Smith was given the go ahead to remove Sano from the lineup ... and who knows when the hard-headed future star and the hard-headed journeyman manager are going to solve their differences.

  15. #95
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    I think some of you are also misrepresenting Killebrew. Sure it took him a few seconds to get the wheels turning when he hit a HR. But it took him almost that long to get out of the box when he hit a single!

    Covering the Cedar Rapids Kernels for
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  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Nelson View Post
    Haven't seen this linked here yet (apologies if I missed it). Reusse's column today sheds some additional light on the situation, and it's not good.

    Twins need a coach from Latin America, pronto | StarTribune.com
    "Hard-headed future star" vs. "Hard-headed journeyman manager". On most clubs, it's obvious who wins that battle. In the MN Twins organization?, not so much.

    I was calling for the Twins to have hired Ivan Rodriguez for the last 2 years. I think he'd set Sano and some of the other Latin ballplayers straight right quick, indeed. What's Omar Vizquel doing these days?
    Last edited by jokin; 07-26-2013 at 02:04 PM.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Nelson View Post
    Haven't seen this linked here yet (apologies if I missed it). Reusse's column today sheds some additional light on the situation, and it's not good.

    Twins need a coach from Latin America, pronto | StarTribune.com
    I hope we're all getting more from the article than just more details on why Sano was benched.

    Those details were included but it certainly was not the point of the article, IMO.

    The organization has benched it's three best Latin American players recently and includes just one coach from that part of the world in its entire organization.
    Last edited by Alex; 07-26-2013 at 02:01 PM.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD Buhr View Post
    jokin, I don't think I've indicated anything is "pre-determined," unless nothing that a player does prior to his debut with the Twins counts for anything. If his behavior in this area doesn't change, he's not going to be a guy I have any particular affinity for. If the behavior changes by the time he's a Twin, terrific. I'd love to see that kind of maturity. But based on the three instances that I know of in roughly the past 12 months' time, I wouldn't bet money on it. It doesn't mean I won't cheer him on. Hell, I cheered for AJ when he was a Twin and that's just one example of many players I didn't particularly like, but had no qualms about rooting for when they wore a Twins uniform. Guess I never realized that was an extreme position.
    Thankyou. Your softening stance and additional qualifying information makes your original quote sound less extreme- additional context always helps clear the air!

    The current situation with the Twins and Sano seems very resolvable with a little agent intervention and with the Twins hiring more coaches in the system with Dominican or at worst Latin American backgrounds.

    (Also, thanks for all the work and information you provide to the community regarding the Midwest League.)

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    I hope we're all getting more from the article than just more details on why Sano was benched.

    That was included but it certainly was not the point, IMO.

    The organization has benched it's three best Latin American players recently and includes just one coach from that part of the world in its entire organization.
    Amen, brother.

  20. #100
    Senior Member Triple-A maxisagod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    ...
    I was calling for them the Twins to have hire Ivan Rodriguez for the last 2 years. I think he'd set Sano and some of the other Latin ballplayers straight right quick, indeed.
    I think this is the most constructive comment you've made on this thread. One of the ways to future reach out to our Latin prospects (which seem to make up 50% of our top minor leaguers now) would be to hire more mangers and coaches at the minor and major league level. Having a David Ortiz type as your 1st base or bench coach on the Twins would help with a cultural and language wall. unfortunately they don't have that right now and Sano needs to learn that isn't always going to be available for him. That why he's working hard to learn English. The cultural challenges of playing Baseball in the USA I'm sure will be the focus on the next movie made about him.

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