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Thread: Article: Liriano's Success Is Tough To Stomach

  1. #1
    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
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    Article: Liriano's Success Is Tough To Stomach


  2. #2
    Senior Member All-Star
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    Liriano has had success before, so its not amazing. Pittsburgh is a good team that is playing well consistently--it's not like Francisco is expected to lead them to victory--just help them. But I say wait until crunch time then judge him.

  3. #3
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    I vote "The Twins failed repeatedly to help Liriano reach his potential" and I don't think that would have changed resigning him.

  4. #4
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    Well according to Liriano, his command improved due to changing his arm angle.

    Fastball command sparks Liriano comeback | TribLIVE

    Seems like those kind of adjustments generally fall under the realm of coaches, so yes, I'd say Anderson does deserve some scrutiny for not trying this technique with Liriano while in Minnesota.

  5. #5
    Liriano 2010: 3.62 ERA, 2.66 FIP, 2.95 xFIP, 9.44 K/9, 2.72 BB/9, 0.42 HR/9, 53.6 GB%
    Liriano 2013: 2.52 ERA, 2.66 FIP, 2.99 xFIP, 9.37 K/9, 3.50 BB/9, 0.37 HR/9, 52.7 GB%

    He's basically having a repeat of his 2010 season, now. I'd say that the big reasons his ERA is more than a run below his 2010 mark are a .287 BABIP (rather than .331 in 2010) and 80.2 LOB% (73.1% in 2010). He's enjoying the benefit of a good Pirates defense (3rd best Defensive Efficiency in the NL) and some luck to support his performance.

    We'll see whether he can keep it up for two or more straight seasons, or if the wild, homer-prone Frankie of 2011-12 will rear up again next year. I tend to doubt that "fixing" him was just as easy as "letting Frankie be Frankie" and encouraging him to throw more sliders (as I've seen suggested elsewhere).
    Last edited by frightwig; 08-20-2013 at 10:19 PM.

  6. #6
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    Well according to Liriano, his command improved due to changing his arm angle.

    Fastball command sparks Liriano comeback | TribLIVE

    Seems like those kind of adjustments generally fall under the realm of coaches, so yes, I'd say Anderson does deserve some scrutiny for not trying this technique with Liriano while in Minnesota.
    Looks like his slot has even gotten more vertical as the year has gone on.

    At some point he'll have to stop right?

  7. #7
    It's never that simple as "it's Anderson's". Who know maybe Anderson did the arm angle thing with Liriano? Sometimes when you hear the same voice for years (4+years in this case) you start to tune it out when it's saying something you don't want to hear. Married anyone?

  8. #8
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frightwig View Post
    He's enjoying the benefit of a good Pirates defense (3rd best Defensive Efficiency in the NL) and some luck to support his performance.
    Interesting sidenote, I was watching Liriano pitch earlier this month and Robby Inkmikowski had a sideline report where he talked about the Pirates changing shifts in the middle of at-bats. They have a second defense against some hitters once they get to two strikes.

    Jeff Banister is the coach in charge of it.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Double-A Jdosen's Avatar
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    I think this is a classic change of scenery scenario, and doubt he would have had the same success back here in MN. And let's not forget the possibility that he just didn't want to come back here any more and wanted a fresh start elsewhere.

  10. #10
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    I remember Liriano's real problem was when he got in trouble things multiplied. Often he would sail along inning after inning, but then have one tough inning and the opponents would score 3, 4, or more. It was as if there were were two different guys.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer gil4's Avatar
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    ...(the Pirates ended up guaranteeing him only a million dollars on a one-year deal, and now have a fairly cheap option on him for 2014 as well)

    ...it wouldn't have been too difficult to healthily outbid the Bucs.
    This is misleading. When he was originally signed, it was a 2-year/$12.75M deal. (I thought I heard $14M at the time, but I'm probably misremembering.) Then he broke his right arm in a fall around the house, and the Pirates voided and renegotiated the deal.

    Sure, only $1M was guaranteed, but he will earn the rest based on incentives (mainly for not spending more than the anticipated amount of time on the DL with the right arm injury.) If he manages to avoid falling in the bathroom this coming off-season he will probably get the full amount, even if his left arm turns back into a pumpkin. (I'm guessing he will make the incentives this year that vest next years deal at $8M.)

    Article with the details: Y! SPORTS

    So it's not as good a deal for the Pirates as it sounds, but what he has done so far has probably paid for the whole contract already. I was in favor of signing him last off season because I thought it was worth a roll of the dice, even at the amount originally discussed, but it did give me some pause. Instead, we rolled the dice on Correia and Pelfrey, with an upside of two #4/5 starters. We won that bet, I guess, but gambling and winning is a lot less fun when the jackpot is a buck-fifty.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    Well according to Liriano, his command improved due to changing his arm angle.
    His first-pitch strike percentage is up (although not quite as good as in 2010), but it's interesting that meanwhile his total percentage of pitches inside the strike zone is actually at a career low, 38.3%. And while his 3.50 BB/9 is certainly better than the last two years, it's not indicative of suddenly great command, either. It's not much lower than his career mark (3.77), actually.

  13. #13
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Liriano could have been signed to a cheap extension last season, which was always the smart move for a team in the Twins situation.

  14. #14
    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    I agree. I think it's a change of scenery. And, it's not like the Twins didn't try to sign Liriano this offseason, but I think we all can understand why they wouldn't have wanted to get in a bidding war for him.

    I'm not the biggest Anderson fan, but I think they tried everything with Liriano to try to spark something. I could argue that they should have let him throw more sliders rather than trying to get him to throw strikes with the fastball, but coming off of Tommy John surgery, I certainly don't blame them for not encouraging a ton of sliders.

    That's why it really doesn't bother me. I'm glad he's doing well, and I hope he keeps it up.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    Good thing the Twins still have Rick Anderson here to help this pitching staff. Maybe Scott Diamond will be the next pitcher to find success after leaving MN.

    Please Terry Ryan let Gardy's and Rick Anderson's contract expire and don't renew them. One last thing you gotta love how the Pohlad's are making it all Ryan's responsibility for firing Gardy if he chooses to do so. I never knew a GM had so much power over ownership.

  16. #16
    No Faul Or Blame Assigned. Sometimes It Is A Person Falling Into A Rut And Need A Change Of Scenery. Maybe Lariano Even HAd An Issue We Are Not Aware Of?

    Anyone Know Why Every Word I Type Gets The First Letter Capitalized when I Hit The Spacebar???????

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldManWinter View Post

    Anyone Know Why Every Word I Type Gets The First Letter Capitalized when I Hit The Spacebar???????
    Does your smart phone know a trick you don't? Find a 12 year old, they usually know.

  18. #18
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    We got Corriea for 5 mil, they got Frankie for 1.....awesome!

    While it stings that he's having success elsewhere and we're stuck with what we have, it's too simplistic to heap the blame on Anderson, he had success under Anderson before, he just couldn't find it the past two years. It never comes down to just one thing, it's usually a combination of them, change of scenery, new competition, change in mechanics, etc..

    I think the largest blame has to go to Ryan for not at least offering up more than the insignificant amount the Bucs signed him for. I mean come on, look at the other crap we ponied up for.

  19. #19
    I agree that no one should get the blame on the Twins side for Liriano's new found success. It hurts to see him do it in a different uniform.. But that fact that he may be unmasking his true potential is pretty awesome. He's always been fun to watch, just most of the time not because he's being successful. If anything, the White Sox should feel the most butt hurt. They have us two (decent? Mediocre?) players for a 1-2 month flyer on Liriano.. And it was ugly. There was no way he was ever going to come back to the Twins anyways. Just was not meant to be any more (as in him finding success here).

  20. #20
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    I believe the Twins did try to sign him in the offseason and Frankie wanted to go elsewhere. Do not blame TR for this one.

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