Minnesota Twins News & Rumors Forum
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21

Thread: Syria

  1. #1
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
    Posts
    3,994
    Like
    4
    Liked 124 Times in 90 Posts
    Blog Entries
    67

    Syria

    Since there was nothing here, I figured I would start this. It looks as though the U.S. is headed, again, into another conflict.

    What are thoughts about this? I certainly have mine, but it would take me more time than I have at the moment to fully articulate it. I will say that I have an Iraq war veteran in my class who was completely beside himself with anger and frustration that the same story, the same buildup, the same stupidity, etc. has reared its head again.

  2. #2
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
    Posts
    1,951
    Like
    257
    Liked 205 Times in 115 Posts
    What's totally unfortunate is that the current government in Syria is rather secular, though very totalitarian; the rebels aren't likely to be as secular (though I don't know this for sure) and probably no less oppressive.

    We don't even know for sure that Assad ordered the chemical strike and given how quickly he acquiesced to the demand for UN inspectors, I'm guessing it was a rogue commander.

    It's just a difficult and bloody and long affair a people to win their own freedom, but really, there's nothing the international community to accelerate the process.

  3. #3
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,494
    Like
    156
    Liked 144 Times in 75 Posts
    Of the 238 years of our existence (if you include both 1776 and 2013), we have been at war for 217 of them.
    This is what we do. We are like drug addicts. As soon as our current war(s) begin to wind down, we instinctively begin pursuing our next "fix".
    It disgusts me.
    It is not our job to play World Police, and in fact we do not even have the moral grounds to pretend that it is our job.
    We consistently use the threat of nuclear weapons to justify war. The fact remains that in the history of the world, only one nation has ever used an atomic weapon against another human population.
    We pretend we have the moral authority to go to war to send a message that ethinic cleansing will not be tolerated. Do we forget the tens of thousands of Native Americans that we killed and/or rounded up and forced onto reservations?
    We complain about illegal immigration, we demand a fence and border police. Do we forget that we went to war with Mexico to acquire much of the land that today illegal immigrants are immigrating to?
    We threaten and admonish other nations who impede their influence onto others. Yet we seem to forget our own Banana Wars.
    We complain about deficits and debt, yet we don't seem to mind the fact that we spend at least $170 billion (some reports estimate it is as high as $1.7 to $1.8 trillion) each year maintaining 1,077 US military bases in at least 63 foreign countries.

    We demand that Muslim countries stop violating basic human rights, seemingly forgetting our own track record of slavery.

    Our government is in cahoots with big business to defraud the American citizen of their tax dollars, recklessly spent on military budgets that we don't need, and wars that we have no business being involved in. The lives, health, and mental well being of young men and women with good intentions have been consistently and constantly sacrificed, in most cases for no good benefit to the American people. Our children turn 18 and become subject to being used as if they are a commodity. It is disgusting.

    If leaders of nations in Africa, Asia, or the Middle East behaved the way our elected officials have behaved in regards to military affairs during our 238 year history, we would call them war criminals.

    We like to talk about other religions, other countries, other world leaders, and the problems they have that we must deal with. Baloney. When you have been at war for 91% of your existence, at some point it is time to look in the mirror, because it is likely you who have the problem.

    It's time to bring the boys (and girls) back home. I have many family members who have fought in Iraq or Afghanistan. The boys who came home are not the same people as the ones who left. They left with lofty ideals of freedom and honor. They have come home with wounds and scars, both mentally and physically. They left with the belief that they were doing some great good for their families and their nation and their people, and ALL of them have come home feeling used, and betrayed, and forgotten.
    I'm disgusted by all of it, and I am disgusted that we are once again embarking on yet another unjust war.

  4. #4
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
    Posts
    4,867
    Like
    185
    Liked 671 Times in 380 Posts
    With Obama's Iraq....I expect much the same as we saw previously. Only this time with the sides comically flipped in attacking/defending it. Pretty sad.

  5. #5
    Senior Member MVP
    Posts
    5,721
    Like
    1,159
    Liked 567 Times in 371 Posts
    No win situation, imo. If he goes, he's a war monger, or someone that did not move fast enough. If he doesn't, he' soft and cowtowing to our allies.

    I'm not a big fan of violence and war, frankly.

    I do take some exception to my friend Mr. Brooks' statements.....I do think that sometimes there is a moral imperative to act as the world's police, even if we are not perfect ourselves. That said, I'm not certain this is one of those times (and Iraq certainly was not).
    Lighten up Francis....

  6. #6
    Senior Member All-Star Badsmerf's Avatar
    Posts
    1,607
    Like
    21
    Liked 82 Times in 49 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    I'm just wondering how this is our conflict. Why is the UN urging the US to wait for military action until they are finished with their investigation? They didn't do anything to us... so why are we going to get involved? Especially without the approval of congress! This is absurd. Maybe we should concentrate on putting our tax dollars into better places... like the economy. Its amazing how negligent our leaders can be.
    Do or do not. There is no try.

  7. #7
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,494
    Like
    156
    Liked 144 Times in 75 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    No win situation, imo. If he goes, he's a war monger, or someone that did not move fast enough. If he doesn't, he' soft and cowtowing to our allies.

    I'm not a big fan of violence and war, frankly.

    I do take some exception to my friend Mr. Brooks' statements.....I do think that sometimes there is a moral imperative to act as the world's police, even if we are not perfect ourselves. That said, I'm not certain this is one of those times (and Iraq certainly was not).
    I don't disagree with that. But I just think the exceptions are much fewer and more far in between then our government does. Nazi Germany exterminating millions of innocent people? Yeah, that crosses a line. But 99% of the crap we stick our noses in doesn't come anywhere near crossing that line.

    I also don't believe we are the only people on the planet with moral values. It doesn't need to be us every time. There are plenty of other civilized countries on the planet, it is about time one of them steps up and handles some of these situations.
    By us being the one to step in everytime, we are basically sub contracting our military out to every other civilized nation on earth, FOR FREE.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Triple-A kydoty's Avatar
    Posts
    273
    Like
    2
    Liked 90 Times in 36 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    With Obama's Iraq....I expect much the same as we saw previously. Only this time with the sides comically flipped in attacking/defending it. Pretty sad.
    Oh no doubt. No Republican wants to face re-election next year having to admit that they voted in favor of giving Obama war powers.

    "Mediocre breaking balls are a gift from God." - Kirby Puckett

  9. #9
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
    Posts
    4,867
    Like
    185
    Liked 671 Times in 380 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by kydoty View Post
    Oh no doubt. No Republican wants to face re-election next year having to admit that they voted in favor of giving Obama war powers.
    Right, we're going to see history repeat itself. Much sooner than I think many would have predicted.

    I wish I could sit back and laugh at conservatives decrying this sort of military action and liberals defending it - but it's just so freaking pathetic.

  10. #10
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
    Posts
    1,951
    Like
    257
    Liked 205 Times in 115 Posts
    As a liberal, there's no way I want war. I'm not sure how deep party patriotism runs for other liberals, but I'll have no problem decrying any hawkish behavior by Obama. I'm sure TV Dems will rally support for the president, but I doubt that's how most self-identified liberals will feel and act. Though, I'm sure all liberals will have a bitter taste in their mouth if Obama takes military action, me included.

  11. #11
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
    Posts
    1,951
    Like
    257
    Liked 205 Times in 115 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Brooks View Post
    Our government is in cahoots with big business to defraud the American citizen of their tax dollars, recklessly spent on military budgets that we don't need, and wars that we have no business being involved in. The lives, health, and mental well being of young men and women with good intentions have been consistently and constantly sacrificed, in most cases for no good benefit to the American people. Our children turn 18 and become subject to being used as if they are a commodity. It is disgusting.
    While, I don't disagree with the sentiment here. (And actually, I'd champion much of what is said here.) I think it's important to note that our country's past and current systemic oppressions give us the access to the very ideas that allows us to question it and the permission to promote such ideas. Ironic, sure.

    One wonders without the threat of American military imperialism would our goods cost so cheaply, would oil flow so readily, would our very economic model hold, could we, indeed, wax philosophy on a baseball message board?

    Food for thought.
    Last edited by PseudoSABR; 08-31-2013 at 12:21 AM.

  12. #12
    Twins Moderator All-Star ChiTownTwinsFan's Avatar
    Posts
    4,842
    Twitter
    @Sheradoodles
    Like
    1,428
    Liked 1,948 Times in 1,139 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Brooks View Post
    I don't disagree with that. But I just think the exceptions are much fewer and more far in between then our government does. Nazi Germany exterminating millions of innocent people? Yeah, that crosses a line. But 99% of the crap we stick our noses in doesn't come anywhere near crossing that line.

    I also don't believe we are the only people on the planet with moral values. It doesn't need to be us every time. There are plenty of other civilized countries on the planet, it is about time one of them steps up and handles some of these situations.
    By us being the one to step in everytime, we are basically sub contracting our military out to every other civilized nation on earth, FOR FREE.
    If that was the reason we entered WW2 I would applaud our ethics and morals. But it wasn't.

  13. #13
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    2,298
    Like
    36
    Liked 137 Times in 83 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Badsmerf View Post
    I'm just wondering how this is our conflict. Why is the UN urging the US to wait for military action until they are finished with their investigation? They didn't do anything to us... so why are we going to get involved? Especially without the approval of congress! This is absurd. Maybe we should concentrate on putting our tax dollars into better places... like the economy. Its amazing how negligent our leaders can be.
    The problem is that the UN is powerless. It's the right idea since no single country should be in a position to decide which conflicts are just/unjust. The problem is that the UN members have self interest and it stalls any significant action. In this case it is Russia and possibly a few others.

    Do not want any part of Syria. Stay out.

  14. #14
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
    Posts
    3,994
    Like
    4
    Liked 124 Times in 90 Posts
    Blog Entries
    67
    Strangely, I think I have actually nothing to add to this! You guys were pretty thorough . . .

    Sidenote: Eugene Jarecki's "Why We Fight" might be the most important documentary that all Americans should watch. And his new one "The House I Live In" (about the "war" on drugs) is also fantastic.

  15. #15
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
    Posts
    3,994
    Like
    4
    Liked 124 Times in 90 Posts
    Blog Entries
    67
    Exclusive: CIA Files Prove America Helped Saddam as He Gassed Iran - By Shane Harris and Matthew M. Aid | Foreign Policy

    "In 1988, during the waning days of Iraq's war with Iran, the United States learned through satellite imagery that Iran was about to gain a major strategic advantage by exploiting a hole in Iraqi defenses. U.S. intelligence officials conveyed the location of the Iranian troops to Iraq, fully aware that Hussein's military would attack with chemical weapons, including sarin, a lethal nerve agent.The intelligence included imagery and maps about Iranian troop movements, as well as the locations of Iranian logistics facilities and details about Iranian air defenses. The Iraqis used mustard gas and sarin prior to four major offensives in early 1988 that relied on U.S. satellite imagery, maps, and other intelligence. These attacks helped to tilt the war in Iraq's favor and bring Iran to the negotiating table, and they ensured that the Reagan administration's long-standing policy of securing an Iraqi victory would succeed. But they were also the last in a series of chemical strikes stretching back several years that the Reagan administration knew about and didn't disclose"

  16. #16
    Senior Member MVP
    Posts
    5,721
    Like
    1,159
    Liked 567 Times in 371 Posts
    Why is poison gas evil, but bombs and guns are not? War is war, either you are playing to win, or not. Now, radiation lasts for hundreds of years.....that's different.
    Lighten up Francis....

  17. #17
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,494
    Like
    156
    Liked 144 Times in 75 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    Why is poison gas evil, but bombs and guns are not? War is war, either you are playing to win, or not. Now, radiation lasts for hundreds of years.....that's different.
    I would guess the idea is that it is almost impossible to use WMD's without harming a lot of civilians. You can't really aim sarin gas, at least not the same way you can aim a bullet or a bomb.

  18. #18
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
    Posts
    4,409
    Like
    420
    Liked 825 Times in 519 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    I'd sum this up in two words: stay out.

    Republicans and Democrats are doing a great job of being hypocrites here too. We don't need more wars. The problem is that the powers that be benefit immensely from them, at the expense of the fine men and women who risk their lives so that the elite can get richer.

    There's a time for war. This isn't it.

  19. #19
    Senior Member MVP
    Posts
    5,721
    Like
    1,159
    Liked 567 Times in 371 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    I'd sum this up in two words: stay out.

    Republicans and Democrats are doing a great job of being hypocrites here too. We don't need more wars. The problem is that the powers that be benefit immensely from them, at the expense of the fine men and women who risk their lives so that the elite can get richer.

    There's a time for war. This isn't it.

    I'm about 99% sure this is my stance also.
    Lighten up Francis....

  20. #20
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer jay's Avatar
    Posts
    889
    Like
    13
    Liked 52 Times in 33 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    I'd sum this up in two words: stay out.

    Republicans and Democrats are doing a great job of being hypocrites here too. We don't need more wars. The problem is that the powers that be benefit immensely from them, at the expense of the fine men and women who risk their lives so that the elite can get richer.

    There's a time for war. This isn't it.
    I have to agree. As a veteran of all-expenses paid year-long staycations to both Iraq and Afghanistan, I can say my very own idealistic perspectives have changed as others here have aptly described. It remains an immense honor to serve, but that should in no way relate to our readiness to expend military force. We justify large military budgets by framing it as a deterrent. I'm inclinded to believe (and hope) that will be the outcome of this situation: a lot of posturing.

    It pains me to my core that we couldn't learn the lessons from our very own past to spare the loss of so many brave American lives over the last 10 years. I can only pray we stop in our tracks on the currently similar path.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
©2014 TwinsCentric, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Interested in advertising with Twins Daily? Click here.