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Thread: Article: Eddie Rosario as a Trade Chip

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by RodneyKline View Post
    In the land of blind men, the one eyed man is King. Dozier is not a good hitter. He is a .240 hitter with a little power. He is OK if we don't have another replacement but Rosario could be a great hitter that can play second just as well. The Twins have the least errors in baseball and one of the best defensive teams in MLB this year. They are also a last place team. Defense is a nice thing to have but if the players can't hit, the defense will not win.
    It's all context. Post all star game (and that discounts the month of June where he had a .902 OPS) Dozier has been a .257/.315/.480 hitter.

    These certainly aren't stellar stats, but for a 2B, that puts him solidly above his 2B peers and in a category that only a handful of 2B exist. The question at hand is whether the improvement legit. I don't know if it is or is not, so he needs another year IMO to prove it, but the fact that he's sustained this now for 3 months says that there's something there.

    The key to fielding a winning team is having guys who are better than average while playing average or better defense. Dozier has been better than average as a 2B on both sides of the game since June 1. That's a good thing. Rosario looks like he can be the same only with a better bat, which if true would be a great thing.

  2. #142
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    Agreed. And if Dozier could be above average at SS then middle infield is solved. I am sure they don't want to mess with Dozier's success this year but feels like they should give that a try next summer.

  3. #143
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    I really don't see how this is an issue until next offseason. I see Rosario going back to AA for a half season and spending some time at AAA unless the Twins desperately need a 2Bman next year. He's much more likely to be a September callup than to be a May/June callup.

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by kab21 View Post
    I really don't see how this is an issue until next offseason. I see Rosario going back to AA for a half season and spending some time at AAA unless the Twins desperately need a 2Bman next year. He's much more likely to be a September callup than to be a May/June callup.
    Well, the thread is about whether or not to use Rosario as a trade chip.

  5. #145
    Senior Member Triple-A Thegrin's Avatar
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    Baseball has a "Sophomore jinx" for a reason. I'd rather make a trade using Dozier or Rosario sometime after the All-Star break.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Thegrin View Post
    Baseball has a "Sophomore jinx" for a reason. I'd rather make a trade using Dozier or Rosario sometime after the All-Star break.
    Yes but this was Doziers second season.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Nelson View Post
    All these "wait another year" responses seem to overlook a (not unlikely) possible scenario: What if Rosario struggles in Triple-A next year and Dozier regresses big-time in the majors? Then we're all looking back at how the Twins failed once again to strike when the iron was hot.
    But the "iron isn't hot" with Dosier, it's marginally above room temperature. Like you say later, he's been a decent hitter for about four months and prior to that, he was an aging, marginal prospect. The possibility for regression would be just as obvious to every other team.

    I understand that it's not ideal to move Rosario, knowing that he may turn out to be a great player and Dozier may turn back into a pumpkin, but when you're desperate to add pitching risks need to be taken. The Twins can live with substandard production at second base; they can't continue to live with a completely hopeless starting rotation.
    I'm not sure what sort of player you think we could get in exchange for either player, but it certainly wouldn't the salvation of our rotation. I mean Dosier would likely get us someone more like a Liam Hendricks than a Jose Barrios in any exchange, and we just don't need any more #4 starter candidates. And Rosario? A borderline top 100 prospect who's position is still not completely settled isn't going to get you a mlb ready starter who's at least a good #3 either.

    In either case, you will not be selling high on either player. Doser could regress, but he could also put up another season with a .720 OPS and plus-defense. If he does, he's a lot more valueable in trade than he is now. Same thing for Rosario if he hit sucessfully at AAA and shows he can do so at the ML level.

    Keep both.

  8. #148
    Senior Member All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Johnson View Post
    But the "iron isn't hot"
    Great post, but please take the time to spell players' names correctly, my friend! I'd hate to see such solid points ignored because of inattention to detail.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgoat_MN View Post
    Well, the thread is about whether or not to use Rosario as a trade chip.
    And I have already said that you use him as a trade chip if there is a deal you are working and he is essential to landing the starting pitcher that you want. But there isn't any reason to trade Rosario for the best starting pitcher (prospect or big leaguer) that you can get. There's no pressure to make the move now.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    Great post, but please take the time to spell players' names correctly, my friend! I'd hate to see such solid points ignored because of inattention to detail.
    \
    Thanks


  11. #151
    If they can get a can't miss starting pitching prospect for Rosario, they gotta do it. I just don't think any team would give up that much for Rosario. Who says he doesn't fit the corner outfield profile? He's a great hitter. That's good enough for me. And he can't be worse defensively than Arcia.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Marta Shearing View Post
    If they can get a can't miss starting pitching prospect for Rosario, they gotta do it.
    Well, they can't. "Can't Miss" pitching prospects get listed towards the top of the 'best-100 prospect' charts. Rosario is near the bottom in those, if he even makes it at all.

    And those types of prospects just aren't often traded anyways.

    The Twins are either going to have to be uncharacteristically aggressive in free agency just to land a few decent #3s. Most likely, they are going to go with what they have, minus Pelfry, and sign some other veteran mediocrity.

    I'd personally like them to go after Johan and Hughes, but why would either of these guys want to sign with the Twins? Same with anyone else. All these guys will recieve better multi-year offers from several other clubs and the Twins will sign whatever unfortunate marginal veteran low-end #3 who's stuck without a chair when the music stops.
    Last edited by Steve Johnson; 09-18-2013 at 03:23 AM.

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Johnson View Post
    why would either of these guys want to sign with the Twins? Same with anyone else. All these guys will recieve better multi-year offers from several other clubs and the Twins will sign whatever unfortunate marginal veteran low-end #3 who's stuck without a chair when the music stops.
    I think this year is proof that you may have an opportunity to start all season for the Twins (Pelfrey, Correia), where going someplace else you may have to fight for a job. That's what the Twins really have to offer at this point. It may not be much or enough to sway some guys, but for some that is very enticing. "Go to the Twins and be their #1 or #2 pitcher, or go to the _____'s who are competing for the playoffs and be their #5."

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by ericchri View Post
    I think this year is proof that you may have an opportunity to start all season for the Twins (Pelfrey, Correia), where going someplace else you may have to fight for a job. That's what the Twins really have to offer at this point. It may not be much or enough to sway some guys, but for some that is very enticing. "Go to the Twins and be their #1 or #2 pitcher, or go to the _____'s who are competing for the playoffs and be their #5."
    Well, they signed Correia because the Twins offered him what a lot of commentators considered an above-market deal. I think it was about the Money and years for him. What you say is true about Pelfrey, but honestly, Pelfrey is not a good pitcher, never really has been. Decent #3 guys will not have a problem finding a team that will commit to starting them, but borderline #4 guys like Mike Pelfrey will

  15. #155
    If Rosario is going to hold his own at 2B I would rather trade Dozier for a prospect.

  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinsfaninsaudi View Post
    If Rosario is going to hold his own at 2B I would rather trade Dozier for a prospect.
    IF, indeed.
    I have high hopes for Rosario, but nothing is certain.
    And as far as what Dozier can net, he has had 963 MLB PA. The last 300 of them were pretty damn good.
    Not great, but good.

    Not sure what we could get for just Dozier.
    I'm on a whiskey diet. I've lost 3 days already.

  17. #157
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Zero reason to trade either one of them now. Maybe near zero reason to trade either at any point in the near future.

  18. #158
    One reason might be we have terrible pitching. No one wants to trade these guys because of our history of bad middle infielders, but pitching is surely a reason to trade one of these guys.

  19. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichiganTwins View Post
    One reason might be we have terrible pitching. No one wants to trade these guys because of our history of bad middle infielders, but pitching is surely a reason to trade one of these guys.
    There are other ways to acquire pitching. And if the Twins were to trade either one, then more AAAA roster pollution would occur!

  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    There are other ways to acquire pitching. And if the Twins were to trade either one, then more AAAA roster pollution would occur!
    Shane I completely agree with you that there are other ways to acquire good pitching, the draft, international signings and free agency. However, as much as we think those are good options, the man in charge of making those decisions disagrees. He will not spend what is required for the Twins to sign a front of the rotation pitcher because he doesn't want to commit the dollars or years. That leaves the draft, which he has clearly dived into trying to find that stud pitching, but it takes years to come to fruition. Stewart won't reach the Twins until sometime in 2016 at the earliest and probably shouldn't be counted on to be dominant until 2018/19, though I know we all hope he is Cingrani pt. 2.

    Given that, a trade is the only way to acquire quality pitching any quicker, would you be ok with that? What would it take for you to make a Dozier/Rosario for pitcher trade (ignore whether it is possible for the moment)? A true #3 pitcher major league ready? A potential Ace that just finished up low A ball?

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