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Thread: Souhan: Twins Must Pay For Pitching

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    It's everyone's fault so it's no one's person's fault and so everyone gets defended...as if they weren't even part of the problem...and it continues.
    There is a different scouting director.
    Although some may not believe there ever was a change, there has been a change in GM.
    I do not know if the scouts are different, I don't keep track of that stuff.
    Some posts are not so much a defense of someone as it is a counterpoint to something posted that one thinks very little of. There is a difference.

  2. #42
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    It's funny (or not). I keep going back to October 2010 and the belief I had that the Twins needed to start making some changes so that they could compete in the post-season.

    I was ready for them to do some re-tooling and had faith that they knew what they needed to do. It's the reason I wasn't upset about Hardy/Nishi -- I had blind faith that the front office and field staff knew what changes needed to be made to try to propel this team to the next level.

    And I remember discussions about contracts coming off the books and monies that might be available to improve the starting pitching.

    In some ways, it is hard for me to even comprehend how the team went from that point in October 2010 to where they are now. Injuries, bad luck, bad judgment, staleness, budget cuts and more have all played a part in the decline. It's just hard to understand how it could all get so bad -- and stay so bad -- so quickly. This decline was not like walking downhill. It was more like jumping off a cliff.

    I wish I had the faith that some posters have that the prospects will really turn this mess around but my trust level has been steadily decimated over the past few years. The Twins need to rebuild not only the team but the confidence of their fans (and former fans).

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    There is a different scouting director.
    Although some may not believe there ever was a change, there has been a change in GM.
    I do not know if the scouts are different, I don't keep track of that stuff.
    Some posts are not so much a defense of someone as it is a counterpoint to something posted that one thinks very little of. There is a difference.
    We've had the same scouting director since 2007. Yes, there's been a change in GM...but it's not as if Ryan isn't responsible for some of problems we've seen from 2011 till now in the way of talent, or lack thereof...dating back to before he left the first time...
    Just remember: You put the lime IN the coconut. Only THEN, can you drink it all up.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Triple-A gil4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    Downfall of the team losing Hunter. Botched Santana trade, all on Ryan.
    I thought Smith made the Santana trade.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by gil4 View Post
    I thought Smith made the Santana trade.
    necessitated by Ryan not nailing Santana down earlier...
    Just remember: You put the lime IN the coconut. Only THEN, can you drink it all up.

  6. #46
    Super Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Lets keep the posts on topic, rather than other posters.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    And the blame game continues on. The team Ryan left won 269 games in the 3 years after he left. The major league talent was there. There were situations left unfinished. It is not unreasonable to have that. The lack of minor league talent was dealt with. Improving minor league systems, as much as some would expect it to do, does not happen overnight. Problems Ryan left with. 2 failed draft picks for Hunter were all Ryan's fault. No one saw the offer the Angels put forth coming in that high. Hindsight makes an easy rip. Downfall of the team losing Hunter. Botched Santana trade, all on Ryan. You are going to think whatever you want. It is not defending Ryan as much as it is what you post is inaccurate
    The 'hindsight' on the Hunter thing isn't hindsight at all...when Hunter was pushing for a new deal prior to 2007, it should have gotten done instead of Ryan ignoring Hunter's requests for a new deal. That's the rip on the Hunter situation...he should have been signed before ever becoming a FA...before the 2007 season ever happened.

    The first offer made to Hunter was after the Castillo trade...the trade that ticked off Santana and Hunter...the trade that sealed off any real chance to keep either one.

    And the talent Ryan left the major league level when he left isn't in question, but the poor farm system he left that would need to be tapped into in the future certainly is.
    Last edited by ThePuck; 09-23-2013 at 11:50 AM.
    Just remember: You put the lime IN the coconut. Only THEN, can you drink it all up.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    No, there is no one person.
    The owner runs the team like a business.
    The scouting department had not found enough talent. Maybe they made bad choices, maybe the one who had the right talent pegged didn't argue hard enough.
    The development people did not develop the talent they had to something better than what the talent could be.
    The GM made poor trades, did not sign the right free agents, did not pick up even slightly better marginal talent when it was available.
    Even the fans are to blame. When the team was winning in the dome, it still had plenty of capacity for more fans. Plenty of blame to go around, just not one person to hang in effigy.
    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    So much for a culture of accountability......
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    It's everyone's fault so it's no one's person's fault and so everyone gets defended...as if they weren't even part of the problem...and it continues.
    I don't think you guys are as far apart as you might think. I agree with nurse that there is plenty of blame to go around. However I don't think that just because one person can't be saddled with all the blame that everybody gets away with it.

    In the judicial system that's why they have a charge of accessory. Five guys don't get to all stand around a dead body each pointing a finger at the guy next to them and walk away free. They were all there, they were all involved so everyone is getting cuffed.

    I know it's callous but that's why I want an entire regime change. If we cannot be sure who is most culpable, it's time to hedge our bets and just start over.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    I don't think you guys are as far apart as you might think. I agree with nurse that there is plenty of blame to go around. However I don't think that just because one person can't be saddled with all the blame that everybody gets away with it.

    In the judicial system that's why they have a charge of accessory. Five guys don't get to all stand around a dead body each pointing a finger at the guy next to them and walk away free. They were all there, they were all involved so everyone is getting cuffed.

    I know it's callous but that's why I want an entire regime change. If we cannot be sure who is most culpable, it's time to hedge our bets and just start over.
    If you go back and read post 36, it might clear up what I'm saying.
    Just remember: You put the lime IN the coconut. Only THEN, can you drink it all up.

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