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Thread: Article: Liam Hendriks Has Run Out of Chances

  1. #41
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    How many games are left now? How about a damn different starting pitcher for each of them? It's like when bars have those "drink X number of different beers and get a t-shirt" things. Can we get some t-shirts out of the deal?

  2. #42
    Senior Member All-Star IdahoPilgrim's Avatar
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    I have great difficulty seeing this as a pitching coach problem. Given that Hendriks has been ineffective from day one, that would mean that our coaching staff managed to corrupt a budding young pitcher in almost record time. A case can perhaps be made that the coaching staff has failed to help Hendriks adjust to a higher level of competition, but that assumes he has the stuff to make it in the first place, which in my mind is by no means certain. This feels like another Slama situation - someone who has great stuff in the minor leagues but, for whatever reason, it just doesn't translate into major league success. This isn't that unusual a story, at this or any other club.

  3. #43
    Senior Member All-Star IdahoPilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    How many games are left now? How about a damn different starting pitcher for each of them? It's like when bars have those "drink X number of different beers and get a t-shirt" things. Can we get some t-shirts out of the deal?
    Reminds me of a quip Reusse made last year during the revolving door rotation we had then - he noted that rookies often have initial success, based simply on the unfamiliarity factor. He jokingly said they should get 162 starting pitchers and have one start each game of the season.

  4. #44
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    I kind of like the idea of having two people in the bullpen who shift between long relief and LOOGY/ROOGY (ha) depending on the situation. Enter Andrew Albers and Liam Hendriks.

    I am also willing to try just about anything out of the gates in 2014. Four outfielders? Perkins and Burton pitching the first inning back and forth? Starting the DSL team as the Twins team? Smoking crack?

  5. #45
    Mr. Hendriks has one option left. He was called up (added to the 40-man roster) in Sept. 2011, and was optioned to AAA in both 2012 and 2013.

    Not that it should have any bearing as to where (if) he fits into the team's plans in 2014.

  6. #46
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew0211 View Post
    Mr. Hendriks has one option left. He was called up (added to the 40-man roster) in Sept. 2011, and was optioned to AAA in both 2012 and 2013.

    Not that it should have any bearing as to where (if) he fits into the team's plans in 2014.
    That is correct, as Jeremy's page clearly indicates. Option him if need be and let him work out of the 'pen in Rochester. Seriously.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer jimbo92107's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thegrin View Post
    He is young. Hendricks can still learn to pitch. He can learn to move the ball up and down, in and out while changing speeds with each pitch. If he learns to pitch, his Strikeout rate will improve, his groundball rate will improve, and his location will improve. This is what the minor leagues are for. We have Albers and Diamond, who are a couple years older, and they are learning to be pitchers. Hendricks can learn to do it as well.
    Problem is, the headline here is correct. His chances to become a pitcher here in Minnesota probably have run out. He may indeed learn to be a pitcher and do quite well, but unless he clears waivers and signs a minor league deal for another year in Rochester, it won't happen.

    Meanwhile, a team with an ambitious pitching coach that's looking for a promising young arm could snap up Hendriks and stash him in their MLB bullpen for a season to see what they can develop. It's a fairly low-risk move, and it might pan out. Frankly, it's in the best interest of the player to get some different pitching coaches to see if they can find a good pitcher in there somewhere. If it happens, I wouldn't be surprised.

  8. #48
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Yeah, aside from just looking at Hendriks' performance, you have to have empathy for a guy who went through the system, was actually good-great throughout and then for whatever reason has faltered big time in the majors. Given other debacles on this staff, I am not willing to simply give Hendriks the blame here. And I do feel for the guy, as dumb as it sounds, for these big struggles. If you have listened to interviews with Seth, he knows the game well. And he WAS hitting 93-94 Monday night. I don't know. Clearly the Twins can shed some bullpen money (Burton) to then spend on starters, so Hendriks to the 'pen seems like a legit move.

  9. #49
    Seriously - Who on the Twins long list of "starters" would be in the "bigs" if it weren't for the Twins? Yeah - that's what I think, too. Nobody! Put them all out there on waivers - they will all pass through - Maybe it's time to put "Andy" on waivers, too!

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    According to the article he's out of options next yr.
    Well okay, that's different and I stand corrected. But still, we don't have to make any sort of issue of this until the end of March. If he has a good spring, I'm guessing the Twins do not pick up enough talent this offseason to warrant any reason to keep him off the ML roster. If he's a mess, he likely passes waivers anyway.

  11. #51
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jorgenswest View Post
    Franks Viola was given 56 starts in his first two seasons. His second season he had an ERA+ of 77. Brad Radke led the league in home runs given up his first two seasons.

    They were both given a long sustained opportunity in the majors. They weren't pitching each start as if it was their last. I don't know if Hendriks was worth the same opportunity given his success in the minors. The Twins will never know. For his sake, I hope they release him and a team like the Pirates gives him a fresh start.
    So now he's the next Brad Radke waiting for an opportunity? Wow. FWIW, Radke's first three seasons in the majors:

    42-30 4.2 ERA 652 IP

    Hendrik's first three seasons in the majors:
    2-13 6.0 ERA 151.1 IP

    Radke was a stud from Day 1 at a younger age than Hendriks' debut. There is simply no comparison between them.
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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    So now he's the next Brad Radke waiting for an opportunity? Wow. FWIW, Radke's first three seasons in the majors:

    42-30 4.2 ERA 652 IP

    Hendrik's first three seasons in the majors:
    2-13 6.0 ERA 151.1 IP

    Radke was a stud from Day 1 at a younger age than Hendriks' debut. There is simply no comparison between them.
    You sure that's a fair stat comparison? Radke's first season his ERA was over 5.32 in 180+ innings. After 15 starts, his ERA was over 6.00. After 28 starts, his ERA was 5.32, Hendriks after 28 starts is 5.95.

    Radke was given a very long rope and people would have been calling for his head on this site if his rookie season was happening now.
    Last edited by ThePuck; 09-23-2013 at 02:10 PM.
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  13. #53
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
    You sure that's a fair stat comparison? Radke's first season his ERA was over 5.32 in 180+ innings. After 15 starts, his ERA was over 6.00. After 28 starts, his ERA was 5.32, Hendriks after 28 starts is 5.95.

    Radke was given a very long rope and people would have been calling for his head on this site if his rookie season was happening now.
    Context required.

    The average team in the AL scored 5.1 runs per game in Radke's rookie year, 91 era+. It's been roughly 4.4 runs per game during Hendriks time, 69 era+.

    The comparison is a pretty poor one.
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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by snepp View Post
    Context required.

    The average team in the AL scored 5.1 runs per game in Radke's rookie year, 91 era+. It's been roughly 4.4 runs per game during Hendriks time, 69 era+.

    The comparison is a pretty poor one.
    That is true...however, there is no way to know for sure how he would have pitched in this era either...and his rookie year sure didn't make him a stud. That's the real problem when these kind of comparison even get broken out. Your point is taken and it's a good one, though.
    Last edited by ThePuck; 09-23-2013 at 02:58 PM.
    Just remember: You put the lime IN the coconut. Only THEN, can you drink it all up.

  15. #55
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    Hendriks fits the mold of too many Twins-developed starting pitchers--no "finish-em-off" pitch. These guys are trained with a regimen of pitch-count management, "pound the strike-zone" mentality that often succeeds in the minor leagues. But every team is fully aware of "The Twins Way" of pitching and simply cherry-picks the pitches. In yesterday's game one of the A's stated that guys were jumping to the bat rack! We have been fed a lot of happy stories of young pitchers in the low minors and how well they have performed. How do we know they won't be the next wave of Slama/Hendriks or for that matter Blackburn, et al ?

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