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Thread: 5 for 20

  1. #1
    Senior Member All-Star YourHouseIsMyHouse's Avatar
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    5 for 20

    The Twins are just 5-15 in their last 20 games. This has been a pathetic finish to what looked like a team that made a slight improvement. I'm so thankful Sano and company didn't get to play with these guys. Does anyone think this will carry over to next year? And does anyone think we'll win another game this year?

  2. #2
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    There are like 2 pitchers in the rotation currently who will be a part of the opening day roster, and maybe 3-4 position players.

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    Senior Member All-Star YourHouseIsMyHouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    There are like 2 pitchers in the rotation currently who will be a part of the opening day roster, and maybe 3-4 position players.
    A little low on the position players. Arcia, Dozier, Plouffe, Presley/Mastroianni, and Florimon will probably be back. Willingham and Doumit too if they're not traded.

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    When your best player is injured it makes a poor team even worse.

  5. #5
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    I can see a full 33% of the 40 man roster altering through release, trade, or DFA pretty easily. Much of what needs to happen involves ending the Twins tenure of Dave St. Peter, Terry Ryan, Mike Radcliff, Rob Antony, Brad Steil, Ron Gardenhire, and Rich Anderson.

    This needs to be said, these people need to be named and called out, and that is that.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    There are like 2 pitchers in the rotation currently who will be a part of the opening day roster, and maybe 3-4 position players.
    Going by your numbers, the Twins simply are not going to turn over 67%-75% of their position players------> if Twins managment stays in place. I can quickly name 8 position players who almost certainly will return- Willingham, Doumit, Dozier, Florimon, Escobar, Arcia, Pinto, Presley. (And if 1 or 2 are traded or sent down, I can think of at least 3 others who would be retained to take their place(s)....ie, Hermann, Plouffe, Mastro....).

  7. #7
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    Given what the Twins have now, the following position players are sure to return if not traded,
    Dozier, Mauer,Florimon, Arcia, Presley, Willingham, Plouffe. Escobar will probably make it. Some combination of the following will also be here, Pinto, Herrmann, Parmelle, Collobella. That will leave one to two positions open depending on whether the Twins carry 12 or 13 position players. Pitchers are a different story as the turnover should be bigger there. Only Correria is guaranteed a starting spot and Gibson will probably be here. Rest of starting staff is or should be an unknown. Bullpen will have Perkins, Burton, Fien, Thielbar and Swarzak. That leaves at least 6 spots open with Duensing probably filling one of them. Pressly may be in Rochester to become a starter again, he at least has some stuff.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    I can see a full 33% of the 40 man roster altering through release, trade, or DFA pretty easily. Much of what needs to happen involves ending the Twins tenure of Dave St. Peter, Terry Ryan, Mike Radcliff, Rob Antony, Brad Steil, Ron Gardenhire, and Rich Anderson



    This needs to be said, these people need to be named and called out, and that is that.
    agreed!! I think this is obvious--- which makes it highly unlikely............

  9. #9
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    Throwing the Baby Out With the Bath Water

    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    I can see a full 33% of the 40 man roster altering through release, trade, or DFA pretty easily. Much of what needs to happen involves ending the Twins tenure of Dave St. Peter, Terry Ryan, Mike Radcliff, Rob Antony, Brad Steil, Ron Gardenhire, and Rich Anderson.

    This needs to be said, these people need to be named and called out, and that is that.
    After 22 months of rebuilding, with only 19 months left, your blueprint for success is off with their heads? This is just lazy and a proven way to extend the rebuilding indefinitely. I would really encourage you to read the positive articles the national media is directing toward our tried, true, and proven organization.

  10. #10
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    These guys were around to cause the need for the rebuild.....it isn't only 22 months with these people. I'm not sure how that is even up for debate.
    Lighten up Francis....

  11. #11
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    Return Service

    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    These guys were around to cause the need for the rebuild.....it isn't only 22 months with these people. I'm not sure how that is even up for debate.
    Mike, in your own words, could you share with those keeping score at home, exactly how these 7 tried, true, and proven professionals caused the need for the rebuild?

  12. #12
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howieramone View Post
    After 22 months of rebuilding, with only 19 months left, your blueprint for success is off with their heads? This is just lazy and a proven way to extend the rebuilding indefinitely. I would really encourage you to read the positive articles the national media is directing toward our tried, true, and proven organization.
    "Positive articles"? "Proven organization"? I am not sure what you are talking about. Anyway, it isn't a lazy approach. Quite the opposite, actually. It is a proactive approach to sweep out those who have caused three terrible seasons in a row, and not a single playoff series won since 2002. I would leave the scouting in place.

  13. #13
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howieramone View Post
    Mike, in your own words, could you share with those keeping score at home, exactly how these 7 tried, true, and proven professionals caused the need for the rebuild?
    Are you related to one of them or something? I don't even know what "tried, true, and proven" is supposed to mean here. I am not saying that they shouldn't likely have jobs somewhere. I don't think they should be in this organization anymore, and that is for the health of the organization.

  14. #14
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    I have said this numerous times. Ryan has done a great job at finding talent and has made some good trades that has rebuilt our minor league system, but for some reason during this seond go round he has only assembled a AAAA quality roster. The Twins have Joe Mauer, a HOF-caliber catcher, but next to nothing else. A failed starter in Perkins, that has become an excellent closer. Willingham surprised us with a standout year in 2012. But when it comes to building the MLB club, TR continues to acquire poor talent. Pressley, Escobar and Hernandez for Morneau and Liriano? Liriano's talent (although inconsistent) alone was worth keeping him. I don't think he is the guy that will get the Twins into contention.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by iastfan112 View Post
    When your best player is injured it makes a poor team even worse.
    This. Don't forget about Morneau. As disappointing as he was, he was the 2nd best hitter on the team.

    With M&M: .242/.312/.381
    Without: .232/.302/.367

    SP may be Twins' biggest problem but it is not the only one.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by howieramone View Post
    After 22 months of rebuilding, with only 19 months left, your blueprint for success is off with their heads? This is just lazy and a proven way to extend the rebuilding indefinitely. I would really encourage you to read the positive articles the national media is directing toward our tried, true, and proven organization.
    Cleveland and Boston proved they could shorten the rebuild, not extend it.

  17. #17
    Senior Member All-Star Sconnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howieramone View Post
    After 22 months of rebuilding, with only 19 months left, your blueprint for success is off with their heads? This is just lazy and a proven way to extend the rebuilding indefinitely. I would really encourage you to read the positive articles the national media is directing toward our tried, true, and proven organization.
    Jokin is dead on, The rebuild process doesn't have to be 5 full seasons of terrible baseball. Make no mistake, this rebuild started in 2011 whether we (or TR) knew it or not. At current rate the rebuild will be another 3 seasons. This team can't be a Pittsburg Pirates, it won't survive another decade of inneptitude like it did in the 90s.

  18. #18
    Senior Member All-Star IdahoPilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sconnie View Post
    This team can't be a Pittsburg Pirates, it won't survive another decade of inneptitude like it did in the 90s.
    I'm curious why you say this. Granted, it might not be fun to watch for a while, but I highly doubt they'll go under.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    I can see a full 33% of the 40 man roster altering through release, trade, or DFA pretty easily. Much of what needs to happen involves ending the Twins tenure of Dave St. Peter, Terry Ryan, Mike Radcliff, Rob Antony, Brad Steil, Ron Gardenhire, and Rich Anderson.

    This needs to be said, these people need to be named and called out, and that is that.
    Shouldn't you be aiming at Deron Johnson instead of Radcliff? Johnson took over as draft guru in 08 and Gibson was the first pitcher he drafted that made the majors. Steil? He's been farm director for one year and it's been a pretty good year for the farm system. Several of the best prospects did two levels. St. Peter? Isn't he mostly about bringing in money/revenue etc and has nothing to do with baseball ops?

    I get the Gardy/Anderson hate, I don't agree but I get it. Ryan hate is ridiculous. He's a great GM, proven and has already made significant strides forward on the rebuild.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sconnie View Post
    Jokin is dead on, The rebuild process doesn't have to be 5 full seasons of terrible baseball. Make no mistake, this rebuild started in 2011 whether we (or TR) knew it or not. At current rate the rebuild will be another 3 seasons. This team can't be a Pittsburg Pirates, it won't survive another decade of inneptitude like it did in the 90s.
    TR wasn't GM in 2011.

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