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Thread: Article: The Tanaka Factor

  1. #1
    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
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    Article: The Tanaka Factor


  2. #2
    I think the Twins will go after him. And I think they will be aggressive. However, I don't think they can compete with the AL or NL West on this one. $100M would be a pretty aggressive investment for MN ($40 to post; $60 to sign). Texas and LAA both have to be feeling desperate about now, and LAD seem to have no spending limit (like the Yankees of old). Sprinkle in a dash of Sea or Oak, and someone will decide to go over $100 for their total investment. I don't think MN will.

  3. #3
    I think it will be more like $60M to post and $65M to sign. $125M total investment.

  4. #4
    Banned Big-Leaguer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zephrin View Post
    I think it will be more like $60M to post and $65M to sign. $125M total investment.
    I think you're very close. I see the Yankees or Dodgers.

  5. #5
    Senior Member All-Star
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    He is a pipe dream for Twins fans. We have already been prompted that the 5+year contracts
    are a "no-sale". Any team will require at least a six-year contract in order to amortize the cost of the bidding fee adequately. Then there is the annual salary...

  6. #6
    Senior Member Triple-A
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    The Twins could easily afford to sign him. They just won't. Not a whole lot of analysis required.

  7. #7
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    This is going to be 6 years and $120 million total. Maybe even pushing to $132 million.

    There is no planet on which the Twins are going to do anything like this. And it's unfortunate.

  8. #8
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    I think we can take the highest bids to this point (~50m), add on the 25m of free t.v. money, sprinkle in a little inflation for the string of successful Japanese pitchers we've seen since the Dice-K bust (Uehara, Tazawa, Darvish, Iwakuma) and that puts the winning posting fee in the 80-90m range.

  9. #9
    Head Moderator All-Star glunn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    This is going to be 6 years and $120 million total. Maybe even pushing to $132 million.

    There is no planet on which the Twins are going to do anything like this. And it's unfortunate.
    I agree that the Twins are unlikely to do this, but don't agree that it's unfortunate. It seems to me that there are probably better ways to spend $120 million+. Some of the Japanese pitchers have been good and some have not. I was optimistic when the Twins signed Nishi -- it seemed to me that at worst Nishi would be decent. I was wrong. And the Tanaka proponents could now be wrong.

    I think that it might be smarter to spend the big bucks on one of more of the Cuban prospects and/or free agents. Yes, Tanaka seems promising, but if the cost is going to be $120+ million, it might be smarter to spread that over 2 or 3 players rather than bet so big on one.

  10. #10
    Banned Big-Leaguer
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    Quote Originally Posted by glunn View Post
    I agree that the Twins are unlikely to do this, but don't agree that it's unfortunate. It seems to me that there are probably better ways to spend $120 million+. Some of the Japanese pitchers have been good and some have not. I was optimistic when the Twins signed Nishi -- it seemed to me that at worst Nishi would be decent. I was wrong. And the Tanaka proponents could now be wrong.

    I think that it might be smarter to spend the big bucks on one of more of the Cuban prospects and/or free agents. Yes, Tanaka seems promising, but if the cost is going to be $120+ million, it might be smarter to spread that over 2 or 3 players rather than bet so big on one.
    I agree there is always a walk away price. In a year or so, he would be at best our 4th best player and we can get a better starting pitcher in the deep 2014 draft. Also, Stewart is more highly rated, and maybe Meyer.
    Last edited by howieramone; 10-07-2013 at 12:54 AM.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Double-A scottz's Avatar
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    And there are plenty of major-league teams ready to spend big on pitching.

    The Twins are one of them.
    I'd say this quote is half right. The first half.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    I don't see the posting fee breaking 40 million by that much. only one team was willing to post 50 million when Yu posted. wasn't second place around 30 million? The only team with that kind of money available not in Minnesota is the Yankees and they are drawing back. the dodgers are saving for Kershaw, the Rangers are near their 125 million target and the angels are near theirs too. I wouldn't be surprised if the winning bid was between 20-30 million. a 5 year 60 - 70 million contract with a 6th option would make sense for the Twins. I do think the total cost to get Tanaka will be around 100 million.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Oldgoat_MN's Avatar
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    Grabbing Tanaka would give the Twins a real chance at signing Kazmir, I believe.
    It would show that the Twins are serious about turning things around.

    With Kazmir, Tanaka and the prospects we have coming, I think we could become a reasonably attractive landing spot for some FAs who want to play on a winner.

    Those moves would be pretty much unprecedented for this GM, but I continue to be an optimist.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Triple-A
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    If it unfolds as Brandon describes then this lines up very well. If the Twins lose out because their attempt/offer stinks it will be incredibly hard to stomach. Like Nick stated, they would be rolling the dice on a guy entering his prime and not a 30ish FA. It could be such a huge acquisition to help bridge between this current team and the line up the Twins should have 2015 and beyond. If he worked out he could help make them relevant faster and rejuvenate the fan base. Come on....one time.
    Last edited by Steve Penz; 10-07-2013 at 08:34 AM.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Triple-A
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
    I don't see the posting fee breaking 40 million by that much. only one team was willing to post 50 million when Yu posted. wasn't second place around 30 million? The only team with that kind of money available not in Minnesota is the Yankees and they are drawing back. the dodgers are saving for Kershaw, the Rangers are near their 125 million target and the angels are near theirs too. I wouldn't be surprised if the winning bid was between 20-30 million. a 5 year 60 - 70 million contract with a 6th option would make sense for the Twins. I do think the total cost to get Tanaka will be around 100 million.
    I thought the posting fee didn't count against the cap or am I mistaken about that? So the Yankees or Dodgers or Angels could spend whatever they thought they needed to win the bid and getting a high quality pitcher for 10-12 million per year shouldn't break the bank for them. I am no scout but I think he looks good enough for high market teams to be interested and with the TV money coming in this will be a bigger offer than normal.

    I really don't think the Twins can play with the big boys on this one. I really, really want the guy as it appears he could make us relevant in the very short term. TR has never proven good at these types of things because he places logical value on players vs performance. I don't think his brain can stretch far enough for Tanaka. Add in the unknown TV revenue effect and it makes it even harder to get this done. I think the Twins will put in a good bid but it won't be enough.
    Last edited by Dman; 10-07-2013 at 09:01 AM.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Double-A zenser's Avatar
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    I think Terry Ryan likes to use the line from Full Metal Jacket when negotiating with free agents. "Five dollars is all my mom allows me to spend."

    Basically, I have a better chance of being in the rotation than Tanaka and I was the 4th man in a two man rotation in little league. I did have the dream once that they would actually pursue him hard and be in the running, but then I woke up. It wont happen.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Triple-A
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    If 6 years and $125 is acceptable for Tanaka, why wouldn't we look at signing Sanchez or even a guy like Price when he becomes a free agent?

    The Twins will NOT go here if that is the price.

  18. #18
    Super Moderator All-Star
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    The trick to winning this one is winning the posting fee. After that, only the winner can negotiate with Tanaka, and the contract will typically run 5/6 years for an amount fairly similar to the posting fee. This is a bit different than competing with the big boys, their initial offer simply has to be the highest. If they want him, throwing 50-60M at the posting fee will likely get it done.

    If we are serious about him, I like our odds here much better than I do going after a Hughes, Kazmir, or Johnson, not to mention he fits in with the coming youth movement. Traiditional FAs can go back and forth until they get the contract they want and other teams stop bidding.

  19. #19
    Junior Member Rookie FSP's Avatar
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    If the Twins are smart they will post insanely high since that is the only time they will actually be competing with other teams, unless that posting rule changed. The player contract itself will be very reasonable since Tanaka has no leverage and it is easy to pay more than the NPB does. I'd go as high as about 80 million on the posting, its not like the money will be spent on anything else next year anyways.

  20. #20
    I'd rather take a flyer and overpay on Lincecum, Santana, Haren, someone else or some1 else 2.0. If they money for pitching can be done just with that High expected posting fee, why just throw it away when we can get some1 who understands english well enough and is able to work with his teammates out of the ballgames? That just seems far smarter than spending the imaginary money that the Pohlads will theoretically drop.

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