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Thread: Article on Terry Ryan

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    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    Article on Terry Ryan

    I thought this article on Terry Ryan was pretty instructive. I think my favorite team has a GM stuck in the 90s, who seems to be "saving his chips" waiting for something that will never come--the perfect free agent. Here's a link to the article by Beradino: Minnesota Twins' Terry Ryan can run from free agency, but he can no longer hide - TwinCities.com

    If the link doesn't work, it is from yesterday's PP.

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    Super Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    The link works, thanks for posting.

    More of the same from Ryan. Some will like it, some will hate it, but there's not much there he hasn't said before, IMO. Not sure if I've heard him say Corriea was an "overpay" before, but whatever.

    One interesting new fact (new to me anyway)...season ticket sales were off 24% since 2011. Ouch.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

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    Quote Originally Posted by stringer bell View Post
    I thought this article on Terry Ryan was pretty instructive. I think my favorite team has a GM stuck in the 90s, who seems to be "saving his chips" waiting for something that will never come--the perfect free agent. Here's a link to the article by Beradino: Minnesota Twins' Terry Ryan can run from free agency, but he can no longer hide - TwinCities.com

    If the link doesn't work, it is from yesterday's PP.
    If you listen to Theo, Ryan sounds like a visionary. Theo in his own words is transparent, and much slicker, but he's using more or less the same process as Ryan. Seth recently posted, Ryan told him he would not take shortcuts. I don't know how he could have made it clearer than that. Ryan being human is going to make mistakes, and there are plenty of areas he can legitimately be criticized for, but the fact of the matter is you can not rebuild a mid-market Major League baseball team in 23 months.
    Last edited by howieramone; 10-08-2013 at 11:32 AM.

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    The article doesn't really say much we didn't know, although I missed the "saving the chips" part. He's not going to spend money just to spend money.

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    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    "That can be frustrating with fans," St. Peter said. "It can be frustrating at times, I think, even for our owner. Terry puts a value on certain players and on a way to build a team. We put a great deal of respect and, frankly, trust in Terry Ryan's approach."
    Step 1. Lose a bunch of games
    Step 2. hibernate through the winter
    Step 3. Wake up, sign one of the stragglers before ST
    Step 4. Draft High

    Rinse and repeat

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    Quote Originally Posted by howieramone View Post
    If you listen to Theo, Ryan sounds like a visionary. Theo in his own words is transparent, and much slicker, but he's using more or less the same process as Ryan. Seth recently posted, Ryan told him he would not take shortcuts. I don't know how he could have made it clearer than that. Ryan being human is going to make mistakes, and there plenty of areas he can legitimately be criticized for, but the fact of the matter is you can not rebuild a mid-market Major League baseball team in 23 months.
    I'd be curious to read the quotes about Theo you're referring to. Any links?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    The article doesn't really say much we didn't know, although I missed the "saving the chips" part. He's not going to spend money just to spend money.
    Who is advocating that? I think most people would prefer he do his due diligence, evaluate players and make this team better. Almost any position on this team, with a couple of notable exceptions (C, 2B, maybe 1B depending on Mauer) could be upgraded easily.
    Last edited by Alex; 10-08-2013 at 09:14 AM.

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    Nobody is advocating that. I've never heard anyone come close to saying that. People who advocate spending more want players signed that can help the team win.

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    Senior Member All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Ryan has been saying this stuff for so long he has effectively mislead many, many people about FA. Yes, you don't build through FA, but it is one of only few viable means of improving your team. It isn't some vile thing only the desperate and incompetent dabble in. It can be a very effective way to make huge strides.

    Let's hope we start seeing I.

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    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    "Saving his chips" were my words. The point is that every free agent which fits Ryan's self-imposed limited budget is flawed. Ryan seems to constantly undervalue mid-tier guys and so the only ones that seriously consider coming to the Twins are the Correias and Pelfreys of the world. Rummaging around the bargain basement sometimes will net a productive player, but it can't be the only free agents added. Additionally, while the Twins farm system looks to have a lot of really, really good position players, I don't think there is enough pitching. They need to add starting pitching from outside the organization.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    I'd be curious to read the quotes about Theo you're referring to. Any links?
    Tons. Google Theo Epstein once a week like I do. Don't read the ones where they wonder if his wife is Jewish.
    Last edited by howieramone; 10-08-2013 at 10:16 AM.

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    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    Dave St. Peter, at that same news conference announcing Gardenhire's return, proudly called Ryan "the most disciplined general manager in the game."

    Being disciplined is good. Being stubborn is not.

    When the question is only money, as it is with most free agents (let's face it, nobody is blocking much talent now), Ryan needs to lean toward the less stubborn side and take a few more risks.

    Put your boss' money where his mouth is, Mr. Ryan. We'll all be watching this winter.

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    There seems to be an unusual obsession on Theo Epstein around here. He is not the gm of the cubs. Why his words keep getting compared to Ryan's is baffling. In any event, whatever the cubs are doing is whatever they are doing. Nothing at all to do with the twins.

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    Quote Originally Posted by howieramone View Post
    Tons. Google Theo Epstein once a week like I do. Don't read the ones where they question if his wife is Jewish.
    Referring to the Cubs top 5 farm system: "Does it help us win big league games right now?" Epstein said. "No. But it will in the future."
    - See more at: Chicago Cubs: Clock ticking for Theo Epstein - Chicago Tribune

    "We need certain things that, in my opinion, we are more likely to find from someone outside the organization at this point,'' Epstein said. "Some things you just can't get from the status quo.'' - See more at: Chicago Cubs: If Theo Epstein is unable to hire Joe Girardi to replace Dale Sveum, he risks compounding his mistake - Chicago Tribune

    On free agency: http://www.bleachernation.com/2013/0...-baez-baezing/

    Now, I had a hard time seeing where Terry Ryan sounds like a visionary, even if his quotes about Free Agency sound very similar. However, as the last article states, he actually did acquire some free agents. They certainly have an opposite view of changing managers and he lays out a pretty clear plan for offense and the types of players he goes after.

    He's been on pretty much the same clock as Ryan and, imo, has been far more active, though he's be met with comparable lack of success.

    Now, the question is should we care? Not really. I'm focused on the Twins and what Ryan can do. To that end, I agree with stringer bell's assessment and the fact that he's been so passive has been concerning. I'll continue to advocate that rebuilding does not require consecutive 96+ loss seasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stringer bell View Post
    "Saving his chips" were my words. The point is that every free agent which fits Ryan's self-imposed limited budget is flawed. Ryan seems to constantly undervalue mid-tier guys and so the only ones that seriously consider coming to the Twins are the Correias and Pelfreys of the world. Rummaging around the bargain basement sometimes will net a productive player, but it can't be the only free agents added. Additionally, while the Twins farm system looks to have a lot of really, really good position players, I don't think there is enough pitching. They need to add starting pitching from outside the organization.
    Sure, and Ryan will sign some pitchers. But who exactly do you think we should be targeting? Pretend you were the GM a year ago. What would you have done differently? I think too many people think free agency is more than what it is, the finishing touches for creating a contending team.

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    One of the more interesting things to me this off-season will be what the team does at 1B and 3B. Last year, nearly everone (including myself) wanted Parmalee and Plouffe to get full-time at bats. Plouffe certainly did and he failed miserably, so that experiment has got to end. Why not go after a veteran like Mark Reynolds to play third base until June, when Sano comes up? He can also serve as DH and play some 1B. If he gets hot, he has some trade deadline value. If he doesn't, well it's a one year deal and Sano is up any way. The issues for me are the non-moves, not the actual ones he's making. Don't block our prospects, but don't be content with the lineup as is.

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    Senior Member Triple-A amjgt's Avatar
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    Terry seems to be making it easier to use his own words against him.

    We know the 2012 Revenue was $214mil - Let's just conservatively assume that stays the same in 2013 & 14 (lower attendance but more TV monies).

    52% of $214mil = $111.28mil

    If we did nothing in the offseason our payroll would be almost exactly half of that.

    How, exactly does Terry plan to approach 52% of revenue going to payroll if he doesn't aggressively pursue free agents?

    We aren't idiots.

    I can see the quote coming now... "We weren't comfortable getting up to 52% of revenue with our payroll, with the free agents that were available"

    Well, Terry, then maybe you should have supplemented a little bit the last couple years by spending on some of the young-ish free agents that were available, with some 5-6 year contracts, instead of waiting until you were $55mil away from your target.

    They really pigeon holed themselves with the "52%" comment years ago. More and more, I get the feeling Bill Smith wanted to actually adhere to that statement and it ended up costing him his job.

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    Good job Alex you found the right articles. I like what Theo said about offense and the types of players he goes after also. He clearly has a plan and he does explain it well. I believe rebuilding requires the 2nd, 4th, and 5th draft picks consecutively.

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    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    I think too many people think free agency is more than what it is, the finishing touches for creating a contending team.
    I think it can be more than that. In the case of the Twins, it can be a way of "bridging the gap" while waiting for prospects to arrive.

    I have wondered why this tweet from Howard Sinker during the October 1 Twins conference call with season ticket holders hasn't gotten more play on Twins Daily:

    Howard Sinker
    ‏@afansview
    1 Oct
    Fan tells Gardy his team lacks clubhouse leader. Gardy: Just because you're a veteran doesn't mean you're a leader. We're in search of that.


    The Twins could very well use free agency to bring in someone who can provide that leadership. I'd have to go out and look at the boards on whose available and I havent' done that yet but Free Agency would certainly be a perfect way to fill that need.

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    Senior Member All-Star IdahoPilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howieramone View Post
    If you listen to Theo, Ryan sounds like a visionary. Theo in his own words is transparent, and much slicker, but he's using more or less the same process as Ryan. Seth recently posted, Ryan told him he would not take shortcuts. I don't know how he could have made it clearer than that. Ryan being human is going to make mistakes, and there plenty of areas he can legitimately be criticized for, but the fact of the matter is you can not rebuild a mid-market Major League baseball team in 23 months.
    I was on vacation the other day, driving around, and I caught Colin Cowherd on ESPN radio. He said basically saying same thing (he was referring to the Cubs franchise), that rebuilding a MLB team is far more difficult than in the other major sports, because the draft only produces results a few years down the road, not immediately, and because adding one or two quality players has less of an effect in baseball than in the other major sports.

    I'm not taking a position on whether Ryan is handling the rebuild correctly or not (although I do tend to favor the build-from-within approach) but I do think it is too early to judge his efforts. A realistic goal for next year would be to win 80 games, and then contend in 2015.
    Last edited by IdahoPilgrim; 10-08-2013 at 11:23 AM.

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