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Thread: The Doumit, Willingham trade challenge

  1. #101
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    Willingham is a career .830 OPS, 122 OPS+ MLB hitter over 4200+ PAs. Prior to 2013, he last failed to put up an .800 OPS in his second big league season, 2005. He had an .890 OPS as recently as 2012.

    Now maybe he has fallen off a cliff at age 34. Then again, he might just have had a down season, like thousands of big leaguers in the past, and he'll put up decent numbers again. If i were a betting man, I'd put even money on him having a higher OPS in 2014 than any current Twin not named Mauer.

    He doesn't improve any teams lineup "dramatically." He has, however, certainly improved the Twins lineup over the alternatives in both his seasons here. In any case I see literally almost no downside to keeping him.
    Agree 100% with the Chief. Or as his avatar might say "shazam" or "goolllliie"

  2. #102
    Senior Member All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    So what's the upside of giving him away this winter? What's the downside of not giving him away?
    You play someone that MAY be a part of the future. Look at Brandon Moss as an example of a team investing at-bats in at least the possibility of future contributions. Willingham offers ZERO future productivity. At least give someone with a 1 or 5 or 20 percent chance a shot.

    And, for the record, I was for dealing him last year. I maintain it was foolish to argue his value would be higher this year. His value (whatever it may have been) was highest last July. And he should've been dealt then.

  3. #103
    Senior Member Double-A Wookiee of the Year's Avatar
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    I'm going to derail (re-rail?) this conversation by jumping back to a response to my comment on page 1.

    Quote Originally Posted by DAM DC Twins Fans View Post
    I would be in favor of this trade. I think Espinosa would be a good fit with the Twins. I doubt Nats GM would make trade straight up--we would probably have to throw one of our minor league hitters (DJ Hicks??) in.
    The comments on Nick's 5 Offseason Predictions article got me thinking: What if the Twins dealt Doumit and Duensing for Espinosa? Would that be enough? I know the Nats had a dearth of lefty bullpen options this past season.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wookiee of the Year View Post
    I'm going to derail (re-rail?) this conversation by jumping back to a response to my comment on page 1.


    The comments on Nick's 5 Offseason Predictions article got me thinking: What if the Twins dealt Doumit and Duensing for Espinosa? Would that be enough? I know the Nats had a dearth of lefty bullpen options this past season.
    I know Espinosa's value has dropped, but that's a pretty big drop. Duensing will likely have some value to a pen starved team, but at the price of his arb contract he's not going to garner much. Doumit is probably worthless at the moment. I could see him getting a sulbaran type guy at next year's deadline if he hits more like 2012 Doumit than 2013.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    If by Arcia "falling apart completely in the second half" you actually mean increasing his OPS by 20 points, then yes, he fell apart. His OBP and AVG did leave something to be desired, but then, wasn't he hurt as well?

    As for the rest, I won't disagree with you completely on Cola or Parmelee, but I don't think that Pressley or Mastro are really in the same category and shouldn't be considered fill ins because they can play any outfield position and should be 4th OF anyway.
    Arcia struck out 35% of the time and walked just 5% of the time in the 2nd half. So his OPS might have increased a little because of a couple extra HR's but those K and BB numbers are absolutely awful. I consider awful plate discipline as falling apart. i think he has a special raw ability for hitting but it's going to take some time.

    Pressley and mastro are 4th OF'ers and should be considered plan B or C for starting positions. The Twins should not start the season with either in a starting role unless there is an injury.

    People continue to completely overlook the negative impact that having almost no good hitters in the lineup can have on young players like Hicks, Sano, Arcia and possibly Rosario. The last thing I want is to call up Arcia and Sano and be forced to bat them 3rd and 4th because the rest of the lineup sucks that bad.

    I'm all for getting youngsters AB's but there is an uninspiring bunch of youngsters competing for multiples spots. If any of them look halfway decent then they will not have a problem getting AB's regardless if Willingham is on the team. Just look at how many AB's AAAA OF'ers got this year.

  6. #106
    Senior Member Double-A Wookiee of the Year's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    I know Espinosa's value has dropped, but that's a pretty big drop. Duensing will likely have some value to a pen starved team, but at the price of his arb contract he's not going to garner much. Doumit is probably worthless at the moment. I could see him getting a sulbaran type guy at next year's deadline if he hits more like 2012 Doumit than 2013.
    I wonder if we're too low on Doumit. The Nationals Baseball blog (a member, like Twins Daily, of ESPN's SweetSpot Network, so I assume it has some legitimacy) and its commenters actually seem somewhat positive about the idea of trading for Doumit. For examples, try here and here.

    A quote from the blogger there:
    "How about Ryan Doumit?
    Not a bad idea. They guy can play 1B and C (though not well) and can sit in the OF as well as say, Tyler Moore can. He can also hit lefty to complement Ramos... Do the Nats have what it takes to get him? Not sure. The Nats don't have a deep system and can't afford to trade anything worthwhile."

    And from some commenters (prompting the blogger's above quote):
    "I agree the Doumit idea is not bad a bad idea at all imo. Very underrated hitter (albeit with defense leaving something to be desired, wherever you put him in the field)"

    "Yeah, I like the Doumit idea too as as a catching/OF depth move, but I noticed he hasn't played 1st much in the last several years. He's only making 3.5 million, so I assume that they'll have to give up a legitimate player for him, but last year's numbers maybe dropped his value back to an reasonable target."

    ...Now obviously, posts on a fan blog and by fan commenters aren't the same as comments from a Front Office, but it does make me think Doumit could have some value to the right team.

  7. #107
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    Let's hope Doumit does.....
    Lighten up Francis....

  8. #108
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    I agree with much of kab's comments. Having the Hammer hitting in the middle of the order isn't all bad and I think he'll hit more like 2012 than 2013 mostly because of improved health and it will be a walk year. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Sano struggle much like Arcia in 2014--a good amount of power but a disturbing number of K's--when he is recalled. What is important is to develop the young future studs--Hicks, Arcia, Buxton, Sano, Rosario. Whatever the plan for Hicks was last year, it didn't work. I would call the results for Arcia mixed, at best. Next year, we should see the debut of Sano (for sure) and probably Rosario and possibly Buxton. How those guys do, along with Hicks and Sano, will determine much of the success of 2014, at least from a position player point of view. If all five are top quadrant second year players, the future will look pretty bright.

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