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Thread: This years Revere/Span trade...

  1. #21
    Senior Member All-Star YourHouseIsMyHouse's Avatar
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    I think we should trade Buxton, Sano, and Rosario for prospects once they get good too while we're at it. We can just develop players for other teams. Seriously, at some point you have to start holding onto players. Trading Dozier makes NO sense at all because he's young, unproven in other's eyes, and plays an important defensive position. Sorry I have to say it that way, but I'm frustrated that once a player has value we want to kick them out. Dozier has a good chance to be our best 2B since Knoblauch. As for pitching, we're going to have to wait. Personally, I think you either pursue an elite pitching prospect or none at all. They're extremely risky and only the cream of the crop end up being the #1s, #2s, and #3s in the league. And most teams are not very keen on trading elite pitching prospects.

  2. #22
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    ...but if the Twins toss in Duensing...

  3. #23
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    Good points on the Dozier/Span comparison, also I hadnt realized Gilmartin's star had fallen so. I knew the Braves had some intriguing 2b coming through the pipeline but did not think they were that mlb ready.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Joe A. Preusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJL44 View Post
    Trading second basemen for starting pitchers almost always works out for the team getting the pitcher. Second basemen are nearly as fungible as relief pitchers.
    Was this sarcasm?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourHouseIsMyHouse View Post
    I think we should trade Buxton, Sano, and Rosario for prospects once they get good too while we're at it. We can just develop players for other teams. Seriously, at some point you have to start holding onto players. Trading Dozier makes NO sense at all because he's young, unproven in other's eyes, and plays an important defensive position. Sorry I have to say it that way, but I'm frustrated that once a player has value we want to kick them out. Dozier has a good chance to be our best 2B since Knoblauch. As for pitching, we're going to have to wait. Personally, I think you either pursue an elite pitching prospect or none at all. They're extremely risky and only the cream of the crop end up being the #1s, #2s, and #3s in the league. And most teams are not very keen on trading elite pitching prospects.
    I understand what you are saying, my thoughts on moving him are more in line with this team is still 2 years away from having a competent rotation. By that time dozier will be 30 and in the tail end of his arbitration years. Trading him to help stockpile the rotation options for 2014-2016 when these position players are breaking in is the best route if your not going to spend any money to augment the rotation other than Pelfrrey/Correa types.

    I also believe both Rosario & Sano are ready to play next year at the mlb level.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourHouseIsMyHouse View Post
    I think we should trade Buxton, Sano, and Rosario for prospects once they get good too while we're at it. We can just develop players for other teams. Seriously, at some point you have to start holding onto players. Trading Dozier makes NO sense at all because he's young, unproven in other's eyes, and plays an important defensive position. Sorry I have to say it that way, but I'm frustrated that once a player has value we want to kick them out. Dozier has a good chance to be our best 2B since Knoblauch. As for pitching, we're going to have to wait. Personally, I think you either pursue an elite pitching prospect or none at all. They're extremely risky and only the cream of the crop end up being the #1s, #2s, and #3s in the league. And most teams are not very keen on trading elite pitching prospects.
    I don't think we should just give him away. But if they can upgrade pitching by bringing in a guy like Alex Wood (and I don't think Atlanta would do that) it makes sense with Rosario starting at AAA next year. But if the best we can get for him is an unproven #5 starter, then we should keep him.

  7. #27
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    Gilmartin is a typical Twins pitcher that everyone was terrified we'd take in the draft when he came out. It just makes so much sense since he's a mirror image of every other pitcher we have.

  8. #28
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    Looking at this year's postseason, makes me think about what type of pitchers the Twins need to be targeting. Whether its the Tigers, RedSox, Dodgers or Cards, all of these rotations have numerous guys that can miss bats. If the pitchers we do not acquire cant miss bats, I don't want them! This organization has been down this road far too many times and it has failed. Our best two pitchers in the last decade have been Santana and Liriano. Both guys missed bats. Invest in high upside arms, knowing that many of them will flame out. But to still be playing in October, these types of arms need to be throughout the organization. No trading Dozier for Diamond 2.0!

  9. #29
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    My theory on Dozier......

    when you are AWFUL, you need to take more chances. Take a chance Rosario is ready at some point next year, and eal Dozier for a position you are short on.....like pitching, or a SS, or pitching, or maybe pitching, heck, I'd argue they need 1 more OFer while they wait on Buxton.
    Lighten up Francis....

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    My theory on Dozier......

    when you are AWFUL, you need to take more chances. Take a chance Rosario is ready at some point next year, and eal Dozier for a position you are short on.....like pitching, or a SS, or pitching, or maybe pitching, heck, I'd argue they need 1 more OFer while they wait on Buxton.
    I think they should deal Dozier for a young 2Bman that played SS in the minors and might be able to handle SS at the MLB.

    I also think it would be criminal to trade someone like Dozier since they wouldn't be getting back a similarly young SS back (teams don't have a surplus of young SS's available) and there is very little hope for a starting SS coming up through the farm system for 2-3 years.

  11. #31
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    I don't think trading a 2B for a SS is going to ever happen. Teams with excess SS generally move one of them to 2B after all.

  12. #32
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    Ah, concentrate on one part, and ignore the rest....ok, trade him for pitching then. that was not really the point of the post at all.....
    Lighten up Francis....

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    Ah, concentrate on one part, and ignore the rest....ok, trade him for pitching then. that was not really the point of the post at all.....
    That's true but this team also doesn't have a SS and there is only Polanco in the minors that looks like he could be average or better. The Twins definitely need pitching but it doesn't make sense to open holes elsewhere that are hard to fill.

    The other BIG problem I have with this argument is that Dozier is probably bringing back a Worley type instead of a high potential arm. Maybe in another year when Dozier has more than 2/3's of a season of good baseball on his big league resume but right now GM's will be lukewarm to him (rightly so).

  14. #34
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    I did mention it is a risk, and it is based on betting that Rosario is ready half way through next year, right?

    don't take the risk then....but be prepared for another awful season next year.
    Lighten up Francis....

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    I did mention it is a risk, and it is based on betting that Rosario is ready half way through next year, right?

    don't take the risk then....but be prepared for another awful season next year.
    It has nothing to do if rosario is ready half way thru next season. dozier should be given every opportunity to fill the SS hole. That is a really difficult position to fill internally or externally.

    getting another Worley level pitcher back does not considerably change the Twins fortunes next season. Especially since you are making a weak offense even worse. I understand that the Twins have some great hitting prospects in the minors and the starting pitching is beyond awful but the Twins also have a terrible offense (25th in the majors).

  16. #36
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    I did not get you were arguing for Dozier to try SS, I'm good with that plan.....

    And yes, that offense was terrible last year, it is being under rated as one of the problems, imo.
    Lighten up Francis....

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siehbiscuit View Post
    Looking at this year's postseason, makes me think about what type of pitchers the Twins need to be targeting. Whether its the Tigers, RedSox, Dodgers or Cards, all of these rotations have numerous guys that can miss bats. If the pitchers we do not acquire cant miss bats, I don't want them! This organization has been down this road far too many times and it has failed. Our best two pitchers in the last decade have been Santana and Liriano. Both guys missed bats. Invest in high upside arms, knowing that many of them will flame out. But to still be playing in October, these types of arms need to be throughout the organization. No trading Dozier for Diamond 2.0!
    Actually, our best starting pitchers over the last decade or so have been Santana, Radke, Milton and Baker. You could also argue that Silva or Mays were just as effective as Liriano.

    Liriano 7 seasons 50-52 4.33 era 98 ERA+, 783.1ip 9.8 WAR
    Silva 4 seasons 47-45 4.42 era 102 ERA+, 773.2ip 9.0 WAR
    Mays 6 seasons 48-65 4.85 era, 94 ERA+, 946ip 10.5 WAR

  18. #38
    Trading Dozier makes no sense to me. What happened to all of the talk about not selling low? He is not going to bring a front of the rotation pitcher now Why take on risk. These types of moves are desperate. The last thing we need to do know is panic and take on risks so that we can be mediocre next year at the expense of future years.

    Get Rosario up here at find out of he has a ML bat. He can play in the outfied will that is being determined and we can give him some playing time at 2B. That approach at least allows us the opportunity to benefit from the best case scenario. That being Dozier plays they way he did for the last two-thirds of 2013 and Rosario demonstrates he can be a great player in this league. That would signiifcantly improve the return that would be gained if Dozier or Rosario were traded. We could also see if Rosario can play 2B and at the same time experiment with moving Dozier back to SS. Making these decisions to early just increases the odds you get it wrong.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major Leauge Ready View Post
    Get Rosario up here at find out of he has a ML bat. He can play in the outfied will that is being determined and we can give him some playing time at 2B. That approach at least allows us the opportunity to benefit from the best case scenario. That being Dozier plays they way he did for the last two-thirds of 2013 and Rosario demonstrates he can be a great player in this league. That would signiifcantly improve the return that would be gained if Dozier or Rosario were traded.
    That lowers the risk to the ballclub but I don't see how it improves the return. The return is based on what another team is willing to pay, not what the Twins have on their roster for talent. If a team is convinced that Brian Dozier can be their long-term answer at 2B they will find him more desirable now when they get him for a longer period of time.

  20. #40
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    Making the decision after a guy is bad, also makes the return lower....that's why any of these decisions carries some degree of risk.

    We do not know if teams think of Dozier as legit right now or not, yet people keep saying that it is clear that we somehow know what teams think...we have no idea what any team thinks about Brian Dozier. We do not know what Dozier could return in a trade.

    We do know that the Twins have a top minor league prospect at the position Dozier plays. We do know they have an insufficient number of SS, OF, and SP (and DH/1B). We also know they have few assets to trade right now. You can choose to keep Dozier, but that does not necessarily decrease the risk at all.
    Lighten up Francis....

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