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Thread: Article: All Former Twins Team - 2013

  1. #1
    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    Article: All Former Twins Team - 2013


  2. #2
    Nice collection of information, though I think the "back stories" that you included are incomplete.

    David, Ortiz "The Twins non-tendered him more than a decade ago and no other teams claimed him."

    He had the 5th highest OPS by the age 26 season of any Twin in history. No other team "claiming him," doesn't let the Twins off the hook. They misjudged his talent which was under their noses and under their contracts.

    "Hardy had his injury-plagued season with the Twins and I’m sure they’d love to have given him another shot. "

    They could have given him another shot, he was under contract, remember? It was a bone-headed trade, don't try and justify it for the Twins.

    I'm not saying the Twins have botched roster moves without reason, but let's not ignore the fact that they have long been making some decisions based on factors devoid of a talent-based approach, see "good clubhouse guys," "staying on the field," "playing the game the Twins way." Money plays into the equation and you can't blame them for letting guys walk for a big payday, but not everyone not named M&M needs to get locked down and paid elsewhere. Making decisions based on being a good guy isn't going to win you games. Making decisions based on injury history which doesn't accurately predict future injury isn't going to win you games.

  3. #3
    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    I would say that the Twins would love to have given Hardy another shot in retrospect. I think that would be a fair statement. It's not making an excuse for trading him. It's saying, in retrospect, it would have been better to keep him.

    As for Ortiz, it's just such an old story from so long ago.

    David, Ortiz "The Twins non-tendered him more than a decade ago and no other teams claimed him."
    I would say that sentence is 100% accurate. Of course, at this point, it's easy to say they should have locked him up. But again, it wasn't just the Twins that missed on that, it was all 30 teams. Ortiz waited until spring training to get a deal with Boston. Everyone could have evaluated differently. I'd also bet anything that the Red Sox didn't know what they were getting either. In fact, weren't they bringing him in to compete with Jeremy Giambi?

    Oh, and Scott Baker and Michael Cuddyer were good guys that they let go, so using that as the reasoning that the Twins bring guys back or not isn't fair.

  4. #4
    That would be fine if it were not for how Twins performed. The Twins have very few players from other organizations that have performed well past couple of seasons. Then if you look at talent that has come up from farm system the last couple of years and this is why were looking at the talent that has left the Twins. This is suppose to change with farm system the twins have but I still think were couple of years removed yet until we see where the team on field has talent and ability to compete with upper tier of teams. Everyone thinks this is going to change quickly but it takes time for young talent to learn to win and compete. Go back to early 80's when Hrbecks, Gaietti, viola and Brunansky came up took them nearly 5 years to build into a winner. Same thing in 90's and I bet this will be same with this prospect potential we have now. I think the Twins could have sped this process in past two years if they had signed some quality free agent pitching and some strenghth up the middle. I would not be surpriced it will be 3 or 4 years before we see a 500 hundred team.

  5. #5
    Always interesting the Fringe Twins that played this past season.

    Of course Scott Baker threw 15 innings. 4BB/6K.
    Phil Humber would've fit into the rotation of the 2013 Twins perfectly, going 0-8 7.98 ERA 1.728 55 inning, 20BB 36 K for the Astros
    Kevin Slowey was 3-6 4.11 in 92 innings 18BB 76K 1.218 for the Marlins

    Out of the Bullpen:
    Alex Burnett went from the Twins to the Jays to the Cubs to the Orioles. He did manage 2.1 innings with 2Ks and 11.57 ERA (3.000 WHIP)
    Jon Rauch was 1-2 7.56 1.800 15 innings 7BB 3K for Miami. Pitched 10 innings for Orioles AAA.
    Matt Capps pitched at AAA for Cleveland and was injured most of the season.
    Ramon Ortiz was 1-2 6.04 1.776 for 25 innings 11 BB 8 K then disabled for season with the Jays
    Luis Ayala was 2-1 3.27 1.545 WHIP 33 innings 12 BB 32 Ks for Orioles and Braves.
    Jose Mijares was 0-3 4.22 1.776 in 49 innings 20BB 54K for the Giants.

    If we want to complain about backup Butera, who got 7 ABS for the Dodgers 1.43 across the board. Corky Miller resurfaced fo the Reds getting 35 ABs and doing 257/366/400. Rene Rivera, ticked because he didn't get a callup last September, got 71 ABS for San Diego and was 254/260/328. Somehow Henry Blanco got 134 at bats with Seattle and Toronto batting 142/228/246.

    Morneau did absolutely nothing for Pittsburgh, which makes for an interesting off-season to see who pays him what. 77 ABS for the wild-card champs and 260/370/312.

    Alex Casilla was over in the all-Twins infield, it seems, at Baltimore. He got 112 at bats and hit 214/268/295. He stole 9 bases.

    Brandon Harris got 107 at bats for the Angels, making the roster out of spring training, and dazzled with a 206/252/355. Spent time at AAA Texas and Yankees.
    Janey Carroll did nothing for KC 111/190/194 in 36 ABs.

    Minor interest in:
    Matt Carson, 11 at bats for the Indians pennant run 636/692/909 and Darnell McDonald, who got time with the Cubs 302/351/434 in 57 ABs.
    Last edited by Rosterman; 10-15-2013 at 07:15 PM.

  6. #6
    The Twins feared what Hardy might ask in arbitration, and he ended up signing a sweetheart deal with the Orioles and may re-up for a similar amount, which isn't bad. At some point, the Twins have to not think hometown discounts and what a player demand and play the market for what players may be worth and then just deal with it. If anyone can figure out the Pelfry deal, let me know. Why the Twins were afraid to pay Ortiz a million is beyond me, still. Yet why do we pay millions to Punto who is happy making a million elsewhere. The whole system is screwed up. Sign players, swap players, keep players, draft players, trade players away....there is no right or wrong.

  7. #7
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosterman View Post
    Always interesting the Fringe Twins that played this past season.

    Of course Scott Baker threw 15 innings. 4BB/6K.
    Phil Humber would've fit into the rotation of the 2013 Twins perfectly, going 0-8 7.98 ERA 1.728 55 inning, 20BB 36 K for the Astros
    Kevin Slowey was 3-6 4.11 in 92 innings 18BB 76K 1.218 for the Marlins

    Out of the Bullpen:
    Alex Burnett went from the Twins to the Jays to the Cubs to the Orioles. He did manage 2.1 innings with 2Ks and 11.57 ERA (3.000 WHIP)
    Jon Rauch was 1-2 7.56 1.800 15 innings 7BB 3K for Miami. Pitched 10 innings for Orioles AAA.
    Matt Capps pitched at AAA for Cleveland and was injured most of the season.
    Ramon Ortiz was 1-2 6.04 1.776 for 25 innings 11 BB 8 K then disabled for season with the Jays
    Luis Ayala was 2-1 3.27 1.545 WHIP 33 innings 12 BB 32 Ks for Orioles and Braves.
    Jose Mijares was 0-3 4.22 1.776 in 49 innings 20BB 54K for the Giants.

    If we want to complain about backup Butera, who got 7 ABS for the Dodgers 1.43 across the board. Corky Miller resurfaced fo the Reds getting 35 ABs and doing 257/366/400. Rene Rivera, ticked because he didn't get a callup last September, got 71 ABS for San Diego and was 254/260/328. Somehow Henry Blanco got 134 at bats with Seattle and Toronto batting 142/228/246.

    Morneau did absolutely nothing for Pittsburgh, which makes for an interesting off-season to see who pays him what. 77 ABS for the wild-card champs and 260/370/312.

    Alex Casilla was over in the all-Twins infield, it seems, at Baltimore. He got 112 at bats and hit 214/268/295. He stole 9 bases.

    Brandon Harris got 107 at bats for the Angels, making the roster out of spring training, and dazzled with a 206/252/355. Spent time at AAA Texas and Yankees.
    Janey Carroll did nothing for KC 111/190/194 in 36 ABs.

    Minor interest in:
    Matt Carson, 11 at bats for the Indians pennant run 636/692/909 and Darnell McDonald, who got time with the Cubs 302/351/434 in 57 ABs.

    Add:
    Jeff Manship 11 games (4 starts) for Colorado 0-5, 7.04 ERA
    Sean Henn, cup of coffee with the Mets
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Steve Lein's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs View Post
    Oh, and Scott Baker and Michael Cuddyer were good guys that they let go, so using that as the reasoning that the Twins bring guys back or not isn't fair.
    I'd actually still call that fair, since I believe both of those guys wanted to leave, as they did try to bring them both back, right?!

    I've long felt the Twins make decisions on players based on the wrong reasons for putting an actual good "baseball" team together. It's always great to have "good guys" and players that fit your "mold," but it's also a very limiting factor if you're trying to add/keep actual talent. I think this is demonstrated very clearly with several names in this list, actually.
    Scouting Report: Tools - Power: 30, Hitting: 50, Arm: 60, Defense: 40, Speed: 40. "Line drive swing and shows good contact and on-base abilities. Double's power at his peak. Strong arm from 2B or the OF, stiff hands. Not a fast runner, but above average instincts on the bases. Skinny body doesn't look the part, but can sneak up on you. ACL surgery sapped much of his athleticism." (Probably)
    Spring Training Regular since 2011.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Triple-A h2oface's Avatar
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    Nick Punto can't seem to help himself when it comes to getting picked off or over running a base in the playoffs.

  10. #10
    Yep, forgot about Manship. Waldrop didn't make it (nor Santana). Randy Ruiz almost did!

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