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Thread: The Target Field Library

  1. #1
    Super Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    The Target Field Library

    I've been thinking about something Lavelle E. Neal said on KFAN a week or four ago.

    He said something along the lines of the Twins Clubhouse being Library like. He may have said something about the Twins clubhouse being a reflection of Mauers personality. I think he did... Maybe I just took it there on my own.

    He also said something along the lines of it it being very noticeable when you walk into the clubhouse of other teams and see and feel this energy that is absent with the Twins.

    So I'm thinking about it... Now I'm thinking about Dan Gladden... Torii Hunter... A.J... These guys had grit and an extroverted style and we used to win when they played for us.

    This leads to more questions that I don't know the answer to.

    Does it matter? Can you quietly produce a winning team? Is Joe Mauer the unquestioned leader? If he is... Should he be?
    "9. Lipstick"

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  2. #2
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    I missed that LEN3 comment but I keep going back in my mind to the Sinker report of the October 1 phone call with season ticket holders when Gardenhire indicated that they are missing a veteran leader in the clubhouse

    "Fan tells Gardy his team lacks clubhouse leader. Gardy: Just because you're a veteran doesn't mean you're a leader. We're in search of that."

    I'm not putting all of this on Mauer. I don't think he can change his personality but I also don't think it brings much energy to his teammates. I remember a story from a few years ago when even Morneau said they didn't see much of Joe on road trips -- he tended to hole up by himself (presumably studying batters as I recall the implication.)

    I really hoped that Morneau could regain his health and become that clubhouse leader they needed but it just never seemed to happen. It is one of the things I hope they look for in a trade or free agency (and one of the things I think they do miss in Cuddy).

    It is also one reason I have some hesitation about trading Perkins because he does seem to provide leadership in the bullpen although that may not translate to the clubhouse overall.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Highabove's Avatar
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    "Leadership is taken, it's not given"

    Joe Maddon

  4. #4
    This is a HUGE problem for the Twins and Terry Ryan/Gardenhire own it. They know what you need over a long season in order to get a team to play at or above their potential. Let's face it, Mauer is a wet noodle with a great swing and athleticism. He will NEVER be a leader. He probably puts half the team asleep when his says something. I'm sure his teammates respect his talent but in no way view him as a motivator or someone who will call out a player who isn't performing. Bring in AJ--my guess he gets in several fights the first month on the season as he deals with the librarians! It would be great for the team to see someone with some passion for the game.

  5. #5
    One other things while I'm hot! I was with an ex MLB player over the weekend and he is convinced a large part of the Twins problem is that some many of the players have spent their careers on losing teams. Many of the minor league teams lost at similar levels as the Twins circa 2011/12/13. Bad formula to try to get players comfortable with losing to turn it around.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefty74 View Post
    This is a HUGE problem for the Twins and Terry Ryan/Gardenhire own it. They know what you need over a long season in order to get a team to play at or above their potential. Let's face it, Mauer is a wet noodle with a great swing and athleticism. He will NEVER be a leader. He probably puts half the team asleep when his says something. I'm sure his teammates respect his talent but in no way view him as a motivator or someone who will call out a player who isn't performing. Bring in AJ--my guess he gets in several fights the first month on the season as he deals with the librarians! It would be great for the team to see someone with some passion for the game.
    It would be interesting to see who, if anyone, fought back and who just folded.

  7. #7
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Leadership is not the problem with the Twins, the problem is half of the lineup and the entire rotation.

  8. #8
    I agree the Mauer situation is a huge mess. I say this as a Mauer supporter. Besides Doumit and Willingham who are a couple of the "what are they still doing here" guys, you basically have Mauer being Mauer and making $20 million a year, and then 20 other guys making the league minimum. And now with Morneau gone there's really no point in even having Mauer around anymore.

    But I also doubt Mauer has any influence on the clubhouse atmosphere, if that's what our good buddy LEN3 is insinuating. I mean Mauer's walk up music is still What You Know, am I correct so I presume Mauer's not walking around the clubhouse telling people shhh quiet, to turn their rap music down!

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    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefty74 View Post
    This is a HUGE problem for the Twins and Terry Ryan/Gardenhire own it. They know what you need over a long season in order to get a team to play at or above their potential. Let's face it, Mauer is a wet noodle with a great swing and athleticism. He will NEVER be a leader. He probably puts half the team asleep when his says something. I'm sure his teammates respect his talent but in no way view him as a motivator or someone who will call out a player who isn't performing. Bring in AJ--my guess he gets in several fights the first month on the season as he deals with the librarians! It would be great for the team to see someone with some passion for the game.
    I have said it before and will say it again, coming out of High School Joe Mauer was one of the best QB prospects in the country, you don't become a top flight QB without being a great leader. Just because he doesn't run his mouth (stupidly) like Hunter, doesn't mean he isn't a leader. Leader's lead by example and Joe is the ultimate professional.

  10. #10
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hosken Bombo Disco View Post
    And now with Morneau gone there's really no point in even having Mauer around anymore.
    Huh? Because a guy who is no longer even a league average 1B is not on the team, there is no reason to have one of the two or three greatest catchers of all time on the team?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Huh? Because a guy who is no longer even a league average 1B is not on the team, there is no reason to have one of the two or three greatest catchers of all time on the team?
    I'd argue Molina and Posey have been much more valuable to ther teams in recent years.. but I ask you how does Mauer fit with what the Twins are doing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    I have said it before and will say it again, coming out of High School Joe Mauer was one of the best QB prospects in the country, you don't become a top flight QB without being a great leader. Just because he doesn't run his mouth (stupidly) like Hunter, doesn't mean he isn't a leader. Leader's lead by example and Joe is the ultimate professional.
    This is a pretty big stretch. He was top HS QB prospect based on his physical tools. Not his personality. You don't have to be great leader in HS, you just need to be the best athlete on the field.

    And nobody is saying Joe is not a pro. He goes about his work, and does his job. From watching interviews, seeing public appearances LENII's comments mesh well with what I have seen. He is not charismatic & not that fiery. That shouldn't be a knock on him, it just is what it is.

    What I don't understand is people who knock Mauer because of this. Why is this Mauer's problem? He gets paid because he is great at playing baseball. Every player on his team surly acknowledges his greatness. But he just is not that interesting.

    So what?

    If the FO wants a leader, go sign some guy with this rep. But I would rather they focus on guys who play the game of baseball as good as Mauer.

    Furthermore, LENII is looking for quotes and good stories. Hunter/Nathan/Cuddy/J-More gave him that. Joe doesn't. This isn't the first time LENIII has slipped in sly attacks on Mauer.

  13. #13
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hosken Bombo Disco View Post
    I'd argue Molina and Posey have been much more valuable to ther teams in recent years.. but I ask you how does Mauer fit with what the Twins are doing?
    Posey is a nice player no doubt, but Mauer has put up 4 140 or higher OPS+ in the last 5 years, Posey has only one in his last 4.

    In the same amount of years, Mauer has 6 years of 4+ (5 of which were over 5) WAR value, Molina has 2.

    How does Mauer fit with what the Twins are doing? He is still relatively young, is one of the best hitters in baseball on a team with the best farm in baseball and a very nice amount of payroll flexibility over the coming 2-3 years.

    If Joe Mauer was 36 and going into the last year of his contract in 2014, I can maybe understand that, but to imply they should get rid of him because he "doesn't fit" is ludicrous.

  14. #14
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clutterheart View Post
    This is a pretty big stretch. He was top HS QB prospect based on his physical tools. Not his personality. You don't have to be great leader in HS, you just need to be the best athlete on the field.

    And nobody is saying Joe is not a pro. He goes about his work, and does his job. From watching interviews, seeing public appearances LENII's comments mesh well with what I have seen. He is not charismatic & not that fiery. That shouldn't be a knock on him, it just is what it is.

    What I don't understand is people who knock Mauer because of this. Why is this Mauer's problem? He gets paid because he is great at playing baseball. Every player on his team surly acknowledges his greatness. But he just is not that interesting.

    So what?

    If the FO wants a leader, go sign some guy with this rep. But I would rather they focus on guys who play the game of baseball as good as Mauer.

    Furthermore, LENII is looking for quotes and good stories. Hunter/Nathan/Cuddy/J-More gave him that. Joe doesn't. This isn't the first time LENIII has slipped in sly attacks on Mauer.
    Frankly, I think the whole "leader in the clubhouse" bit is overblown. The Twins main problem is they don't have good ball players on the roster currently, you could bring in the greatest "leader" in the history of the game and the Twins still lose 90+ games.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer righty8383's Avatar
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    Obviously I don't have access to the clubhouse, but one guy that I could see being a team leader and energizer some day is Oswaldo Arcia. Sometimes the camera will get shots of him in the dugout showing him to be that kind of player. Anybody else make that observation or is it just me? Of course he is still young has work to do on his own game before he could really take on that roll.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Posey is a nice player no doubt, but Mauer has put up 4 140 or higher OPS+ in the last 5 years, Posey has only one in his last 4.

    In the same amount of years, Mauer has 6 years of 4+ (5 of which were over 5) WAR value, Molina has 2.

    How does Mauer fit with what the Twins are doing? He is still relatively young, is one of the best hitters in baseball on a team with the best farm in baseball and a very nice amount of payroll flexibility over the coming 2-3 years.

    If Joe Mauer was 36 and going into the last year of his contract in 2014, I can maybe understand that, but to imply they should get rid of him because he "doesn't fit" is ludicrous.
    Again, the Mauer situation is a hot steaming mess. Trading or retiring him is out of the question. Playing him at catcher is suspect, since you are both putting him at further concussion risk and taking away development opportunities from others. Putting him at first decreases his statistical value though that doesn't bother me per se, but seems to bother others. I have said he belonged at third since Valencia left (and go forward with M&M at the corners) but apparently we're going to give the Plouffe experiment infinite time (more free advice ignored!).

    No good answers. The fact that the field manager or front office doesn't even know what to do with him tells you everything you need to know about this organization's incompetence and they will find a way to squander his best remaining years. I am not a blame the players guy. I'm a huge Mauer guy. The Twins just have no plan for him anymore and they don't have the stomach to make a decision and go with it. It's just all a huge mess.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by righty8383 View Post
    Obviously I don't have access to the clubhouse, but one guy that I could see being a team leader and energizer some day is Oswaldo Arcia. Sometimes the camera will get shots of him in the dugout showing him to be that kind of player. Anybody else make that observation or is it just me? Of course he is still young has work to do on his own game before he could really take on that roll.
    As long as Gardy doesn't try to neuter him.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by notoriousgod71 View Post
    As long as Gardy doesn't try to neuter him.
    see also: ​Hicks, Aaron

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Leadership is not the problem with the Twins, the problem is half of the lineup and the entire rotation.
    The 2008 to 2010 teams were pretty quiet (except for Hudson, who it was later revealed drove people crazy). They have had winning teams post-Hunter. Cuddy (and later Thome) might have been more vocal, but I don't think that was a difference maker. He was also on the 2011 team. The difference between 2010 and 2011 was not because of a loss of a leader -- it was injuries etc.

    I do think a lot of who is declared the leader by the media is the one who gives the colorful quotes. I heard a couple of the radio people saying how much they missed Hunter after he gave some colorful quotes after his fence flip. It had nothing to do with his leadership and everything with being something they could easily put in an article.

    I do think an outgoing personality could help, but the real need is talent. I don't think we are losing because the club house is quiet, although one of the reasons the club house is so quiet is because they are losing. Get some talent and victories and you might see some more personality.
    Last edited by D. Hocking; 10-16-2013 at 07:15 AM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Posey is a nice player no doubt, but Mauer has put up 4 140 or higher OPS+ in the last 5 years, Posey has only one in his last 4.

    In the same amount of years, Mauer has 6 years of 4+ (5 of which were over 5) WAR value, Molina has 2.

    How does Mauer fit with what the Twins are doing? He is still relatively young, is one of the best hitters in baseball on a team with the best farm in baseball and a very nice amount of payroll flexibility over the coming 2-3 years.

    If Joe Mauer was 36 and going into the last year of his contract in 2014, I can maybe understand that, but to imply they should get rid of him because he "doesn't fit" is ludicrous.
    With the exception of the 'ludicrous' comment, this post, IMO, is spot on.
    Last edited by ThePuck; 10-16-2013 at 08:10 AM.
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