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Thread: Sid's article on Morneau

  1. #21
    Owner All-Star John Bonnes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IdahoPilgrim View Post
    I love this. We have a direct quote from a free agent that there is something more important than money on the top of his FA wish list - and people almost immediately start back on the "highest bidder wins" horse and assume that if we don't sign somebody it's because we're cheap, not because there were other factors involved.
    First, I don't think Morneau really said what the headline said he did. He also said he needed to find the best fit for him and his family.

    But even if he had said something stronger, I still wouldn't have believed it because I think that while players all say they want to sign with a winner, they don't. And had he said that, it would be a 180 degree reverse from 3 months ago, when his agent asked the Twins for an extension.

    I'll just add to clarifications:
    1) I don't think money and years is the only factor. Given two situations that are close, I can see ballplayers deciding to go with the team they think has a better chance to win, or the team their friends are on.

    2) Players shouldn't be demonized for taking the money. If a team wants to show its committed to a player, they need to pay him. If they don't, it's likely just BS. I don't blame players for taking the team with incrementally more money or an extra guaranteed year, because if that team likes him enough to offer the most, they're probably the team that wants him the most.

    It feels like the subtext here is: "the Twins have a harder time signing FAs then other teams." That might be true, but it isn't substantially harder. I really doubt Joe Saunders had a $7.5M dollar offer from the Twins that he turned down for a $6.5M offer from the Mariners. He might have had a $6.5M offer that he turned down.

    And I think it's really unlikely that the Twins offered extra money to any of the guys who ended up being more expensive.

  2. #22
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    I think that Morneau should be lucky if he has to chose where he goes (i.e. if more than one team give him more than MiLB contract offers) based on his performance...
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  3. #23
    Senior Member Triple-A whydidnt's Avatar
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    Just to add to the whole bit about Free Agents saying one thing and then doing another for money, years, etc... Anyone remember Greg Jennings saying the primary factor for picking a new team last off season? He said he wanted to go to a team with a good Quarterback. Somehow he ended up with the Vikings. I guess he just is a poor judge of QB talent, the big contract had nothing to do with it.

  4. #24
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    JB:
    I really doubt Joe Saunders had a $7.5M dollar offer from the Twins that he turned down for a $6.5M offer from the Mariners. He might have had a $6.5M offer that he turned down.
    I agree wholeheartedly with you on this... but your unwritten implication is that Saunders' representatives gave the Twins a chance to top the Mariners offer. Other than for players re-signing with the same team, I don't think agents go back and forth prostituting the other teams offer very often (although you could argue they should).

    And isn't it just as likely that Seattle was given the chance to match the Twins offer?

  5. #25
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    The more we go round and round about FA's and why they sign, the more I come to one conclusion: it doesn't matter. The GM's job is to improve the baseball team and FA is one route to that. Perhaps FA's sign for money or perhaps for family reasons, perhaps because of population or location, perhaps because his daughter loves purple unicorns and thinks Minnesota is where they live.

    Maybe Minnesota is a hard place to draw free agents to but at the end of the day it is still the GM's job to make it happen. Maybe that means offering the most money, or pimping the local community, or the arts, or the outdoors. Maybe it means hiring extra employees whose sole job is to do extra thorough research on a FA so you know exactly what drives his decisions and then putting extra pressure in the appropriate places.

    At the end of every conversation about FA's we need to realize that signing good players is a part of every GM's job description. It doesn't matter if it is easy or hard to sign players, it is still a requirement. Making excuses for a person failing to do their job doesn't help improve the product on the field and won't help bring home that big shiny trophy we all want to see some time soon. Will Terry Ryan be capable of bringing in the necessary talent upgrades; I don't know. He didn't the last two offseasons. He is now in his 3rd year and the clock is ticking.

  6. #26
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxtung View Post
    The more we go round and round about FA's and why they sign, the more I come to one conclusion: it doesn't matter. The GM's job is to improve the baseball team and FA is one route to that. Perhaps FA's sign for money or perhaps for family reasons, perhaps because of population or location, perhaps because his daughter loves purple unicorns and thinks Minnesota is where they live.

    Maybe Minnesota is a hard place to draw free agents to but at the end of the day it is still the GM's job to make it happen. Maybe that means offering the most money, or pimping the local community, or the arts, or the outdoors. Maybe it means hiring extra employees whose sole job is to do extra thorough research on a FA so you know exactly what drives his decisions and then putting extra pressure in the appropriate places.

    At the end of every conversation about FA's we need to realize that signing good players is a part of every GM's job description. It doesn't matter if it is easy or hard to sign players, it is still a requirement. Making excuses for a person failing to do their job doesn't help improve the product on the field and won't help bring home that big shiny trophy we all want to see some time soon. Will Terry Ryan be capable of bringing in the necessary talent upgrades; I don't know. He didn't the last two offseasons. He is now in his 3rd year and the clock is ticking.
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  7. #27
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    Back to Morneau...

    I don't think his agent was magnamimous in approaching the Twins--I think he realized that Morneau was permanently damaged goods and that he was making "a preemptive strike" to try to convince the Twins they could "get a bargain" by signing Morneau to an extension. Methinks his present statement on "looking for a winner" is true. He expects a number of "sharply reduced" offers (like say $1MM) and he will choose the team that he believes has the best chance of winning. Let's be blunt--Morneau is RICH--he can easily afford to take a much lower offer to play for a playoff-bound team, that a hopeless loser.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwak View Post
    Back to Morneau...

    I don't think his agent was magnamimous in approaching the Twins--I think he realized that Morneau was permanently damaged goods and that he was making "a preemptive strike" to try to convince the Twins they could "get a bargain" by signing Morneau to an extension. Methinks his present statement on "looking for a winner" is true. He expects a number of "sharply reduced" offers (like say $1MM) and he will choose the team that he believes has the best chance of winning. Let's be blunt--Morneau is RICH--he can easily afford to take a much lower offer to play for a playoff-bound team, that a hopeless loser.
    I think Morneau is highly unlikely to end up on a playoff team considering his recent seasons. He's far more likely to get an opportunity on a team that is coming off a losing season or rebuilding, who can take a risk because they don't have anything better waiting in the wings.

  9. #29
    Dollars and years trumps. Many of the mid-lower level FA are cashing in for the first time. Players get tremendous pressure from agents and the union to take the highest bid. More money means bigger commitment and aside from a bunch more zero's they are just like most other people, wanting to go where they feel the most wanted.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Joe A. Preusser's Avatar
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    I respect the career Sid Hartman has had and is still having, but I have seldom agreed with him and have often found his 'sources' lacking. The guy who delivers water to the office isn't a real source. That said, Morneau very much seems like the type of guy to pursue a winning team or a familiar team rather than the extra money, especially since he should already be set for life if he's the least bit fiscally responsible. I'd love to have him back on a modest 2 year contract to be a spark and leader.

  11. #31
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    I'm not a fan of Sid, and articles like this are one of many reasons. He didn't give us any indication that he knows something. He just used a bunch of random quotes and concluded Morneau will be looking for a winner. Quite honestly, I don't blame Justin. The real question is how much baseball does Justin think he has left. If he thinks he has another 5 years in the tank, then Morneau is going to go to someone who will play him. If he doesn't, then I think Sid is right.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    I'm not a fan of Sid, and articles like this are one of many reasons. He didn't give us any indication that he knows something. He just used a bunch of random quotes and concluded Morneau will be looking for a winner. Quite honestly, I don't blame Justin. The real question is how much baseball does Justin think he has left. If he thinks he has another 5 years in the tank, then Morneau is going to go to someone who will play him. If he doesn't, then I think Sid is right.
    Unless he starts turning things around quickly, he won't have much longer in this league unfortunately. I think 1-2 at most.

  13. #33
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    Yeah with the complete lack of production given by Morneau, both before and after his trade, I don't think he's going to have a whole lot of say in where he goes. He'll likely only get 1 or 2 offers with a guaranteed MLB roster spot.

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