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Thread: Jose Abreu signs with Sox

  1. #1
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Jose Abreu signs with Sox


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    Very affordable to a team like the Twins, who like the Sox, cleared out a ton of payroll room for a signing just like this- and both teams had a clear need for Abreu, but only one of the teams seems to be trying. A definite shot across the bow in the AL Central that the Sox are getting serious about getting back up on their horsey, with the Twins yet again, coming out with the short straw and the mule-end of the Division. This one hurts, folks.

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    Twins Contributor All-Star Jeremy Nygaard's Avatar
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    Right or wrong, Twins were never very interested.

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    I listened to a tape of a SUX roundtable discussion about what they should do for 2014. One point they agreed--the SUX have to put a good product on the field to sell tickets, as opposed to the Cubs (and the Twins!). They spend to improve--using their former GM's plan--fill holes with veteran FAs--yet recognizing they (SUX) aren't the Yankees and have to live on a budget! No need to add what the Twins are doing!

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    This is just depressing. I admire the White Sox for at least trying to improve their team rather than wait for a tomorrow that may never come.
    Last edited by notoriousgod71; 10-17-2013 at 10:55 PM.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Triple-A raindog's Avatar
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    Frustrating that he's going within the division, and the Twins weren't interested. I sure hope they make me look like an idiot, but they should have gone after the guy. 6 years, 68 million is not unreasonable, and wouldn't have crippled the payroll if he failed.

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    Senior Member All-Star Badsmerf's Avatar
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    This could make Terry Ryan look like a fool yet again. There was a clear need for him on this roster, there was money available, and Terry Ryan wasn't even interested. He might be right, but he could also be completely wrong.
    Do or do not. There is no try.

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    I'm not saying this isn't disappointing, but the Twins would have needed to pay north of 11 (likely 12) million a year for a guy who projects to be a DH? The scouting I've read says at best, he may be okay. So, he may be a monster bat, with little defensive abilities. With the pitching needs, I'm not going to scream foul at this one.....unless we don't sign pitching.....or he's an absolute monster.......then I'll cry...a lot.
    I will one day successfully sneak onto the Sportive Podcast, and have nothing intelligent to say or add to the conversation.

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    I understand the criticism. The Twins need to get better and do so in a hurry. Would you prefer we spend $11-$12 million on a starter? That and he is anything but a guaranteed thing. No one else, including the Astros who were admittedly trying to over pay for him at $55m came close to the bid the Sox did. Now, they may be able to look back on this in 4 years and say it was the best move. Right now it looks foolish to everyone in baseball. Abreu has a slow bat and may not be even an average hitter.

    I applaud them not wasting money on could be DH's if they spend it on pitching.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Triple-A raindog's Avatar
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    That is not a lot of money anymore, as we'll soon see. Contracts are going to look outrageous with all the TV money coming in. If he hits like Ryan Howard when he was good, the contract won't look bad at all.

    AROG, the Twins have enough money to spend on a big bat and pitching. Their payroll is ridiculously low right now.
    Last edited by raindog; 10-18-2013 at 09:29 AM. Reason: arog response

  11. #11
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LimestoneBaggy View Post
    I'm not saying this isn't disappointing, but the Twins would have needed to pay north of 11 (likely 12) million a year for a guy who projects to be a DH? The scouting I've read says at best, he may be okay. So, he may be a monster bat, with little defensive abilities. With the pitching needs, I'm not going to scream foul at this one.....unless we don't sign pitching.....or he's an absolute monster.......then I'll cry...a lot.
    Other posters have said this before but I'll repeat it: the Twins need to soak up good players when they have the chance and worry about where to play them later. If this guy hits like Ryan Howard then they could have squeezed him in somewhere.

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    I love this signing for the Twins. This means Adam Dunn OR this guy is playing 1B/LF. That's 'greener' pastures for the Twins. Very slow and liabilities in the field. Adam Dunn's D-WAR is -2.4. Can't wait to see him or Abreu in the field for the White Sox.

    According to Buster Olney, "most" (whatever that means) industry experts feel he's a very risky acquisition and weary on his guy's ability to transition to MLB.

    It's not even assumed he'll start with the big club next year.

    If he cost 'only' $11M/per, why didn't the Yankees put 2 pennies together and get him?

    Lyle Overbay, Mark Reynolds, Kevin Youkilis, Travis Hafner, & Curtis Granderson were responsible for most of the DH at-bats and they represent $37.5M coming off the books.

    Why wouldn't they sign him...if he was only $11M/yr to sign?

    How about Boston? Mike Napoli is a FA after the season. He cost $13M.

    They must not think Abreu could hit .259 AVG 23 HR 92 RBI in 579 at-bats (Napoli's numbers)...and for a cheaper price to boot.

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    2014--back to the cellar of the ALC for the Twins.

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    From Bed Badler:

    I've Jose Abreu several times and like him. But there are good scouts who wonder if the White Sox are paying $68MM for a 4A player.

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    Quote Originally Posted by raindog View Post
    AROG, the Twins have enough money to spend on a big bat and pitching. Their payroll is ridiculously low right now.
    I know that they can, my point is that I would rather have a proven commodity at $11 million per year then a completely unproven one. I would rather go after any number of guys then Abreu.

  16. #16
    I heard this news last night and it made me a little sick, but here's the thing:

    Yes, you can fault Terry Ryan for being excessively risk averse and having 25-year-old preconceptions of what FA's should cost...and I absolutely fault him for those things.

    But for a Twins team this bad, I'm don't honestly believe that $68 million for a 1B/DH, even one that hits 25-30 HR's a year, really solves our problems. Especially if you do that in lieu of any other pitching help from free agency or international signings over the next 2-3 years. I think Mauer is usually the 1st baseman next year, and Arcia and Sano look like they are sure bets to be sure-fire MLB players (not necessarily stars) in the upcoming years, and both of them are all-bat-no-defense.

    Cespedes and Puig absolutely worked out, but like domestic prospects, there is no guarantee that you come up snake eyes with that major investment until you see some MLB results (see: Nishioka, Hideki Irabu, Kaz Matsui, etc.). Until you're at highest level, you never know if there's some irreparable hole in Abreu's swing that good pitchers can exploit.

    It doesn't change the fact that at the end of the day, the front office has to do SOMETHING aggressive, or we are unlikely to break the top 3 of the AL Central any time soon. Even just sitting on our offensive prospects, we don't have the rotation to run with these teams if we're unwilling to sign high-end starters in FA and are waiting on 18-year-old draft picks to grow up.

  17. #17
    Junior Member Rookie FSP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AROG View Post
    I know that they can, my point is that I would rather have a proven commodity at $11 million per year then a completely unproven one. I would rather go after any number of guys then Abreu.
    An $11 million per year proven commodity will have only proven to be very average.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    Other posters have said this before but I'll repeat it: the Twins need to soak up good players when they have the chance and worry about where to play them later. If this guy hits like Ryan Howard then they could have squeezed him in somewhere.
    My main point is that he appears to be a defensive liability (or a primary DH). Taking a risk is always good (and I would have been beyond happy if they would have taken a shot), I can just see the logic in passing at that price point with a low defensive upside. Seems to be half the player of Puig/Cespedes for more money. I hope that he stinks for the Sox, or you will be dead on.
    I will one day successfully sneak onto the Sportive Podcast, and have nothing intelligent to say or add to the conversation.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by StormJH1 View Post
    I heard this news last night and it made me a little sick, but here's the thing:

    Yes, you can fault Terry Ryan for being excessively risk averse and having 25-year-old preconceptions of what FA's should cost...and I absolutely fault him for those things.

    But for a Twins team this bad, I'm don't honestly believe that $68 million for a 1B/DH, even one that hits 25-30 HR's a year, really solves our problems. Especially if you do that in lieu of any other pitching help from free agency or international signings over the next 2-3 years. I think Mauer is usually the 1st baseman next year, and Arcia and Sano look like they are sure bets to be sure-fire MLB players (not necessarily stars) in the upcoming years, and both of them are all-bat-no-defense.

    Cespedes and Puig absolutely worked out, but like domestic prospects, there is no guarantee that you come up snake eyes with that major investment until you see some MLB results (see: Nishioka, Hideki Irabu, Kaz Matsui, etc.). Until you're at highest level, you never know if there's some irreparable hole in Abreu's swing that good pitchers can exploit.

    It doesn't change the fact that at the end of the day, the front office has to do SOMETHING aggressive, or we are unlikely to break the top 3 of the AL Central any time soon. Even just sitting on our offensive prospects, we don't have the rotation to run with these teams if we're unwilling to sign high-end starters in FA and are waiting on 18-year-old draft picks to grow up.
    For a Twins team this bad they should be adding one or two quality pieces every year, not waiting until they're on the verge of being respectable and adding (at best) one. We don't have a 1b, we don't have a DH, we don't have any SP. We're going to need to fill all of those holes anyway. What's the harm in filling one of them now and having less holes to fill in 2016?

  20. #20
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Ugh, if the Twins spent 68 million on a bat before they spent that money on front-end starter, everyone would be up-in-arms, as they should be.

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