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Thread: What about trading Hicks?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marta Shearing View Post
    I was really looking forward to an outfield of Kepler/Buxton/Hicks someday.
    Don't kid yourself. All we need is Buxton covering the entire outfield and 2 extra guys stacking the infield.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Oldgoat_MN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    The time to trade him was last spring. Now his value is at a low ebb.
    Yes, except last spring he looked like he could be a ROY candidate in a position where we had just traded our way into near desperation.

    I guess we now know why we got so much for those two center fielders.
    I'm on a whiskey diet. I've lost 3 days already.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    Some players are slow to develop because they aren't going to develop, so stating one player struggled doesn't mean all struggling players are destined for greatness, which is what this kind of stance purports.

    BTW, did you take a look at Morneau when comparing him to Hicks? They're development has been nothing alike except when they made their debut. Morneau destroyed the minors and didn't have a down year there. When called up he did struggle for 115 ABs, but that's it. He was then an above average hitter except for 2005 when he was slightly below average.
    I mentioned Morneau b/c Morneau was a very highly rated prospect who took a while to play well. Over his first 1000 AB he was a 98 OPS+ hitter amassed less than 2 WAR. In early 2006, fans were dumping on him. Some were hoping the Twins would trade him for Ty Wiggington and others thought that was too much to hope for.

    They are different types of players - Morneau, at his best, was a clear power hitter and that was his prospect status. Hicks would never hit that well but Hicks was always a good prospect, even when he had "bad" years, he was a better hitter than his league would suggest. Fangraphs wrote about the concern of a toolsy guy not developing as fast as people wanted and how it colors peoples views of him. Like Aaron Hicks, Buxton Will Require Patience | FanGraphs Baseball

  4. #24
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    I definitely don't think you give up on the guy because he struggled this year. I think the best comp is Torii Hunter, who struggled mightily when he first came up, but eventually adapted. That said, 2014 is a make or break year for him in this organization. We need to see him thrive at the major league level at some point next year.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  5. #25
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    I definitely don't think you give up on the guy because he struggled this year. I think the best comp is Torii Hunter, who struggled mightily when he first came up, but eventually adapted. That said, 2014 is a make or break year for him in this organization. We need to see him thrive at the major league level at some point next year.
    I suspect he's going to spend most if not all of next year in Rochester, no matter how well he's doing. The only exception sans a Sept callup I could see is if Presley is just down right awful and Hicks is hitting .280/.400/.500 or something absurd like that.

  6. #26
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    What kind of OF do you want in 2016? - Mr. Everything (5 Tool / Buxton) CF - Solid Hitter who generates 20 HRs (Arcia) LF - Great Defender with modest average and OBP (Hicks) RF
    or Mr. Everything (5 Tool / Buxton) CF - Solid Hitter who generates 20 HRs (Arcia) LF - HR Hitter who produces runs and modest fielder (Walker) RF. I want more offense in my OF corner hitters. Even if that OFer became Kepler. We need offense to protect our modest pitching rotation too.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer jay's Avatar
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    This fangraphs article on Victorino's grand slam got me thinking about Hicks:
    The Grand Slam That Almost Wasn?t | FanGraphs Baseball

    Why? Well, they point this out:
    "Victorino has switch hit for his entire major league career, but gave up batting left-handed in early August... Since giving up batting left-handed, Victorino has had one of the most productive stretches of his career."

    The grand slam Victorino hit against Veras to send the Sox to the WS? Did it batting righty vs a righty. Looking at his numbers, the only adverse effect has been a decrease in his BB/K rates while he's put up monster numbers.

    The biggest knock I've seen against Hicks giving up switching hitting and batting righty full-time is the adjustment period, maybe a full season or more.
    If a guy like Victorino can successfully make the change away from switch hitting in mid-season and promptly put up impressive numbers, is this maybe an overrated concern?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay View Post
    This fangraphs article on Victorino's grand slam got me thinking about Hicks:
    The Grand Slam That Almost Wasn?t | FanGraphs Baseball

    Why? Well, they point this out:
    "Victorino has switch hit for his entire major league career, but gave up batting left-handed in early August... Since giving up batting left-handed, Victorino has had one of the most productive stretches of his career."

    The grand slam Victorino hit against Veras to send the Sox to the WS? Did it batting righty vs a righty. Looking at his numbers, the only adverse effect has been a decrease in his BB/K rates while he's put up monster numbers.

    The biggest knock I've seen against Hicks giving up switching hitting and batting righty full-time is the adjustment period, maybe a full season or more.
    If a guy like Victorino can successfully make the change away from switch hitting in mid-season and promptly put up impressive numbers, is this maybe an overrated concern?
    Yeah, it's something they should try, but I'd be surprised if the Twins do that.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by AROG View Post
    The two players I had in mind were Nick Tepesch and Justin Grimm. ...The more likely candidate is Grimm but Tepesch may be available as well.

    What do you think?
    The Rangers would never trade Grimm, since they've already traded him to the Cubs in the Garza deal.

  10. #30
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    To modify things slightly: "...Victorio has hit for his entire major league career..." Hicks would need to spend all of 2014 in Rochester to adjust and prove that this adjustment works!

  11. #31
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    I still don't understand much of the attitude towards Hicks around here. There is basically nothing out of the ordinary after April. He skipped a level after not doing well initially each year after normal promotions. I still have never gotten an answer about the number of players in recent memory who have skipped AAA and then started the year as the leadoff man for their team. How many players have done that? Is Hicks the only one?

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay View Post
    This fangraphs article on Victorino's grand slam got me thinking about Hicks:
    The Grand Slam That Almost Wasn?t | FanGraphs Baseball

    Why? Well, they point this out:
    "Victorino has switch hit for his entire major league career, but gave up batting left-handed in early August... Since giving up batting left-handed, Victorino has had one of the most productive stretches of his career."

    The grand slam Victorino hit against Veras to send the Sox to the WS? Did it batting righty vs a righty. Looking at his numbers, the only adverse effect has been a decrease in his BB/K rates while he's put up monster numbers.

    The biggest knock I've seen against Hicks giving up switching hitting and batting righty full-time is the adjustment period, maybe a full season or more.
    If a guy like Victorino can successfully make the change away from switch hitting in mid-season and promptly put up impressive numbers, is this maybe an overrated concern?
    It's a good point. I'm one that thinks it would be hard for a guy to switch to one way but I could be wrong. I hope Hicks and his hitting coaches at least discuss it. But I have no idea if Victorino is even remotely normal. I've read in the past that it's pretty hard for a switch hitter to go to one side. But maybe he and Florimon should.

  13. #33
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    It's a good point. I'm one that thinks it would be hard for a guy to switch to one way but I could be wrong. I hope Hicks and his hitting coaches at least discuss it. But I have no idea if Victorino is even remotely normal. I've read in the past that it's pretty hard for a switch hitter to go to one side. But maybe he and Florimon should.
    Right, we can't really make conclusions based off one guy doing it well. At the same time, there don't seem to be a lot of examples out there. Given how the stats have looked over a large sample for both Hicks and Florimon, I don't see how it could be much worse batting single sided.

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