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Thread: Twins add Paul Molitor to the major league staff!

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    My experience is that this might make it harder for Molitor to be named manager some day. If things get bad enough that Gardy needs to be fired, I have to think they'll be bad enough that none of his assistant coaches will be given the reins.
    Why would you think that? TK was promoted to Interim Manager in 1986 after Ray Miller was let go after being added to the Major League coaching staff in 1983.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    It still doesn't answer the question that wasn't asked of Ryan, namely, why is Molitor a "good fit" now, when according to Ryan, he wasn't a "good fit" last year, or any year previous to now? Ryan said that he and Gardy had "discussed (Molitor) at length at previous times", and yet up until today he has been forever-spurned from joining the field staff on a regular basis. What changed?
    Mike Berardino tweeted yesterday

    Mike Berardino ‏@MikeBerardino Family considerations were key, Paul Molitor said. Julia is 10, Benjamin is 7. Kids now "old enough and young enough" to handle separation
    I think the 'good fit' isnt on the Twins end, but on Molitor's end.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    My experience is that this might make it harder for Molitor to be named manager some day. If things get bad enough that Gardy needs to be fired, I have to think they'll be bad enough that none of his assistant coaches will be given the reins.
    I would agree if this was a different club, but the Twins managerial staff has been hired and fired in piecemeal for decades. The only way I see wholesale changes is if Ryan gets canned and a new GM, from outside the organization comes in a blows everything up.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bonnes View Post
    My experience is that this might make it harder for Molitor to be named manager some day. If things get bad enough that Gardy needs to be fired, I have to think they'll be bad enough that none of his assistant coaches will be given the reins.
    Why would you think that? TK was promoted to Interim Manager in 1986 after Ray Miller was let go after being added to the Major League coaching staff in 1983.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Thrylos View Post
    Replace "cocaine" with "cream and clear" and "Molly" with "Bonds" and let me know how you feel.

    Same story. Different drugs.
    I respect the opinion you have but I'm sorry cocaine may be considered an upper for a short time but the prolonged use is far from performing enhancing. IMO you don't use cocaine to get better at things. You use it to party.

  6. #86
    As to the future manager status: I have no interest in someone who hasn't managed at any level before (coaching doesn't count). I realize that Hall of Famers aren't likely to want to get experience riding the buses in the minor leagues, but that's where I'm at. I still have some bad memories of the Quilici years.

  7. #87
    Super Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    If this has been brought up already, I missed it: Molitor is 57 years old. A year older than Gardy.

    It's not against the rules to replace a manager with someone older, but 57 is pretty long in the tooth to be getting one's first managing gig. I took a look at the 30 current managers, and most got their first managing job in their 40s, if not their 30s. The ones who were in their 50s were:

    • Bud Black - 50
    • Don Mattingly - 50
    • Kirk Gibson - 53
    • Ron Roenicke - 54
    • Ron Washington - 55
    • Charley Manuel - 56

    The first three seem the closest match for Molitor - stars (or at least a long and good MLB career in the case of Black) who hadn't necessarily paid a couple of decades of minor-league, bus-ridin' dues as coaches, as far as I recall. Realistically, Molitor would be 58 or 59 if he ever got the call, almost a full decade older than these three were.

    The other three were more in the "organizational man" mold, I think, which may or may not have bearing on Molitor. But even they were a few years younger than Molitor is now.

    Jim Leyland just retired at 68. But he wasn't born old. His first managing job was at age 41. Jack McKeon was older than dirt when he came back to the Marlins, but he started with the Royals at 42. This is kind of typical of successful managers, such as Maddon and Girardi, and I would expect (no, I hope) the Twins to aim similarly.

    I'm sure it wouldn't be unprecedented for somebody Molly's age to get a first managerial job (I found it surprisingly difficult to look this up). But it would be highly against the trend.

    / edit - the same reason applies to why I've never looked at Gene Glynn as a manager-in-waiting at Rochester, except as an interim in case of some dire emergency.
    Last edited by ashburyjohn; 10-23-2013 at 11:37 AM.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    If this has been brought up already, I missed it: Molitor is 57 years old. A year older than Gardy.

    It's not against the rules to replace a manager with someone older, but 57 is pretty long in the tooth to be getting one's first managing gig. I took a look at the 30 current managers, and most got their first managing job in their 40s, if not their 30s. The ones who were in their 50s were:

    • Bud Black - 50
    • Don Mattingly - 50
    • Kirk Gibson - 53
    • Ron Roenicke - 54
    • Ron Washington - 55
    • Charley Manuel - 56

    The first three seem the closest match for Molitor - stars (or at least a long and good MLB career in the case of Black) who hadn't necessarily paid a couple of decades of minor-league, bus-ridin' dues as coaches, as far as I recall. Realistically, Molitor would be 58 or 59 if he ever got the call, almost a full decade older than these three were.

    The other three were more in the "organizational man" mold, I think, which may or may not have bearing on Molitor. But even they were a few years younger than Molitor is now.

    Jim Leyland just retired at 68. But he wasn't born old. His first managing job was at age 41. Jack McKeon was older than dirt when he came back to the Marlins, but he started with the Royals at 42. This is kind of typical of successful managers, such as Maddon and Girardi, and I would expect (no, I hope) the Twins to aim similarly.

    I'm sure it wouldn't be unprecedented for somebody Molly's age to get a first managerial job (I found it surprisingly difficult to look this up). But it would be highly against the trend.

    / edit - the same reason applies to why I've never looked at Gene Glynn as a manager-in-waiting at Rochester, except as an interim in case of some dire emergency.
    Thanks, Asbury. Really helpful--albeit depressing, since I don't think of Molly as old, and I'm Gardy's age.

  9. #89
    Super Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longdistancetwins View Post
    Thanks, Asbury. Really helpful--albeit depressing, since I don't think of Molly as old, and I'm Gardy's age.
    You think that's bad. I'm older than USAFChief.

  10. #90
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Twins attendance 1990: 1.752M
    Twins sign Jack Morris
    Twins attendance 1991: 2.294M (31% increase in overall attendance).

    Twins attendance 1995: 1.058M (72 games)
    Twins sign Paul Molitor
    Twins attendance 1996: 1.437M (81 games) (21% increase in per/game attendance.)
    Still.
    I think that it has to do with performance of the club and names in general, and not necessary where someone was born.

    For example, the single game record attendance in the Dome was broken in '87 in Steve Carlton's first start. Despite being older than dirt and ineffective, Carlton and the Twins were packing rear ends in the dome on his every start after that, compared to games started by the like of Les Straker. Of course we all know what happened in '87 (and in '91.)

    I am convinced that the 90 to 91 season attendance jump has more to do with the team's last to first performance than the signing of Jack Morris
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  11. #91
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    Actually, attendance usually really jumps the year after success, not during the year of success. That's been shown several times in studies. Though, there are likely exceptions, so those could be exceptions.
    Lighten up Francis....

  12. #92
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    You think that's bad. I'm older than USAFChief.
    And I'm older than both of you!

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wise One View Post
    That the Twins were winning those years compared to the poor seasons previous had nothing to do with attendance. It was all to see 2 players. By 1998 with Molitor the attendance had gone back down. They were not winning. Winning draws the fans
    My post was a direct response to what had been flatly stated as a fact. I specifically made no reference to it being "all to see 2 players". Of course, those 2 players did heighten preseason interest and directly led to increased ticket sales- before any wins or losses took place....and also of course- their outstanding seasons in those specific years I mentioned directly led to significant improvements in on-the-field performance.

    (Uhh, in 1996, Molitor was in a season long pursuit of 3000 hits- a prime reason to come out to the ballpark to see a still-losing team, not a winning team. By 1998, Molitor was turning 42 and a shell of his self).

  14. #94
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    Thanks everyone for making me feel younger today.
    Lighten up Francis....

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringer bell View Post
    And I'm older than both of you!
    22760_486847500135_1333575_a.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    Thanks everyone for making me feel younger today.
    What old people say.
    Last edited by ashburyjohn; 10-23-2013 at 04:33 PM.

  16. #96
    Super Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone for making me feel smarter today.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    I'm sure it wouldn't be unprecedented for somebody Molly's age to get a first managerial job (I found it surprisingly difficult to look this up). But it would be highly against the trend.
    Really nice work on the managerial debuts by age, interesting stuff.

    In the end, though, it's the Twins, so none of the normal rules apply. Gardenhire's return after 3 90-loss seasons is just shy of unprecedented, so it looks like nothing is off the table.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaBombo View Post
    Really nice work on the managerial debuts by age, interesting stuff.

    In the end, though, it's the Twins, so "none of the normal rules apply." Gardenhire's return after 3 90-loss seasons is "just shy of unprecedented", so it looks like "nothing is off the table."
    I like it when a phrase is coined, particularly when they just so happen to exemplify the Twins in just about every aspect of the game in this decade thus far.
    Last edited by jokin; 10-23-2013 at 04:58 PM.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    I like it when a phrase is coined, particularly when they just so happen to exemplify the Twins in just about every aspect of the game in this decade thus far.
    Part of the problem is that the Twins front office continues to frequently act as if they have unusual ideas about what decade this actually is.

    Still optimistic, though, and hoping that Terry Ryan won't see his shadow at the winter meetings, thus bringing about a speedy end to his self-imposed offensive Dead Ball Era.

  20. #100
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    Regarding age -- 55 is the new 35 -- at least that is what I tell myself...

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