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Thread: Article: TwinsDaily Interview With Terry Ryan: Gardenhire and Molitor

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    1. Embrace math and science as helpful things, not things to be mocked.
    2. Hired people from outside the org, with different ideas, to reduce groupthink
    3. Realized the good players cost real money, and spend it
    4. Fired the scouts that recommended the same old tired pitcher types, that he trusts so much, that appear to be wrong over and over, not listened to them more
    5. Hired a coaching staff that believes in shifts, and other "new ways" of thinking, that so far have proven to be effective
    6. Looked hard at my development processes, and wonder why they have turned out so few good players. Without doing that, I can't say how I'd change them.
    7. Embraced better nutrition and training in the minors, not trusting young adults to eat well based on low pay.

    that's off the top of my head, without having time to give it more thought.
    Most of these are just how you'd do things differently, none that would improve the team. And Ryan did bring in Jack Goin to do stats. You also make the claim of spend money but don't say how, even with the benefit of hindsight.

    You seem stuck on some notion that the Twins can't develop talent despite a pretty successful history of doing that and currently having one of the top ranked farm systems. Why can't you accept the idea that it's just cyclical? That teams, esp low payroll teams as they were until 2010, don't always stay on top? Why does the normal ebb and flow have to mean that Ryan, who took over two years ago, is an old guy who doesn't understand the game? Since he's come back, has he been snookered in a trade? Has he been burned in a FA signing? Has he reorganized the organization? Have top prospects been rushed? Has the team drafted well? Has he brought in younger coaches and managers throughout the system? Has he made good small moves - waiver claims, minor league free agents, rule v picks?

    What he hasn't done is waste money on large FA signings that wouldn't have helped the team anyway.

  2. #22
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    Um, I said I'd change processes, which is pretty much what I listed, other than 1 spot. Not sure what you expected, given that.
    Lighten up Francis....

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    1. Embrace math and science as helpful things, not things to be mocked.
    2. Hired people from outside the org, with different ideas, to reduce groupthink
    3. Realized the good players cost real money, and spend it
    4. Fired the scouts that recommended the same old tired pitcher types, that he trusts so much, that appear to be wrong over and over, not listened to them more
    5. Hired a coaching staff that believes in shifts, and other "new ways" of thinking, that so far have proven to be effective
    6. Looked hard at my development processes, and wonder why they have turned out so few good players. Without doing that, I can't say how I'd change them.
    7. Embraced better nutrition and training in the minors, not trusting young adults to eat well based on low pay.

    that's off the top of my head, without having time to give it more thought.
    Despite the fact that you can't satisfy some folks no matter what you say....let me add:

    8) Solve the expanded platooning options issues by setting a strict limit for pitchers on the 25-man roster at 12...which can be readily accomplished by employing the DL strategically.....and especially by utilizing a couple more younger and limited service time RPs with unlimited options like Tonkin and Thielbar on shuttle runs between the Twins and Rochester.

  4. #24
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    I'd just like to know what corrective measures the Twins have taken to right the ship besides the replacement of Bill Smith with TR. From the outside, it's hard to see what else they've done, and though I'm not a Bill Smith fan, the problems ran much deeper than him.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    Most of these are just how you'd do things differently, none that would improve the team.
    How can you matter-of-factly make that statment? Each of those things very likely would impact the team in some manner, why is it not possible they would improve the club if embraced?

    You seem to take the most umbrage with his #6:

    --6. Looked hard at my development processes, and wonder why they have turned out so few good players. Without doing that, I can't say how I'd change them. --

    What possbible reason is there to disagree with this? This should be done by every GM constantly. The Twins haven't turned out quality players lately, why wouldn't you try to assess the reasons? If the reason is, "there is no reason," fine, but Mike clearly said he couldn't state what he would change without an internal evaluation.

    There are legitimate issues to be concerned about within this organization, Ryan acknowledges as much. The poster you replied to clearly and rationally listed reasonable areas to address or fix, I'm sorry but Ryan himself says he has to do better, why can't we?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    8) Solve the expanded platooning options issues by setting a strict limit for pitchers on the 25-man roster at 12...which can be readily accomplished by employing the DL strategically.....and especially by utilizing a couple more younger and limited service time RPs with unlimited options like Tonkin and Thielbar on shuttle runs between the Twins and Rochester.
    I understand your point, but I don't think you can blame poor use of the DL for the 13-man staff this year - I thought they handled the DL pretty well and certainly more aggressively than last year. The problem was starting pitching that usually didn't get out of the 6th inning - almost have to have a 13-man staff when that happens.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    How can you matter-of-factly make that statment? Each of those things very likely would impact the team in some manner, why is it not possible they would improve the club if embraced?
    Because it's true. His comments - Ryan mocks science and math, team suffers from groupthink - aren't necessarily true, just his opinion of Ryan. Saying "I'd do things differently" isn't the same as "I'd do things better." And saying "I'd do it differently" isn't a way to solve the problem when you don't know what the problem is. Even with the benefit of hindsight, no one has suggested a better way to do what Ryan has done, except abstract get rid of everyone posts.

    Ryan seems to have figured that the team lacks talent, put people in charge of minor league development that he trusts and has given them talent. He has a track record of successfully rebuilding this team and there's no reason to think that he needs to fire a bunch of scouts b/c the a draft 7 years ago sucked. I find it stunning that people can look at what he's done the last two years as GM and still be anti-Ryan. He's a very good GM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    Because it's true. His comments - Ryan mocks science and math, team suffers from groupthink - aren't necessarily true, just his opinion of Ryan. .
    Sorry, but this statement is what's, demonstrably, not true.....just your opinion.
    Last edited by jokin; 10-23-2013 at 04:39 PM.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by IdahoPilgrim View Post
    I understand your point, but I don't think you can blame poor use of the DL for the 13-man staff this year - I thought they handled the DL pretty well and certainly more aggressively than last year. The problem was starting pitching that usually didn't get out of the 6th inning - almost have to have a 13-man staff when that happens.
    Why not just have your 13th...and 14th man...in Rochester....or on the DL?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    How can you matter-of-factly make that statment? Each of those things very likely would impact the team in some manner, why is it not possible they would improve the club if embraced?

    You seem to take the most umbrage with his #6:

    --6. Looked hard at my development processes, and wonder why they have turned out so few good players. Without doing that, I can't say how I'd change them. --

    What possbible reason is there to disagree with this? This should be done by every GM constantly. The Twins haven't turned out quality players lately, why wouldn't you try to assess the reasons? If the reason is, "there is no reason," fine, but Mike clearly said he couldn't state what he would change without an internal evaluation.

    There are legitimate issues to be concerned about within this organization, Ryan acknowledges as much. The poster you replied to clearly and rationally listed reasonable areas to address or fix, I'm sorry but Ryan himself says he has to do better, why can't we?
    The answer we got was "Because he's a good GM.".....which apparently is supposed to cut off all debate and alternative proposals. Even when asked for.
    Last edited by jokin; 10-23-2013 at 04:45 PM.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    Most of these are just how you'd do things differently, none that would improve the team. And Ryan did bring in Jack Goin to do stats. You also make the claim of spend money but don't say how, even with the benefit of hindsight.

    You seem stuck on some notion that the Twins can't develop talent despite a pretty successful history of doing that and currently having one of the top ranked farm systems. Why can't you accept the idea that it's just cyclical? That teams, esp low payroll teams as they were until 2010, don't always stay on top? Why does the normal ebb and flow have to mean that Ryan, who took over two years ago, is an old guy who doesn't understand the game? Since he's come back, has he been snookered in a trade? Has he been burned in a FA signing? Has he reorganized the organization? Have top prospects been rushed? Has the team drafted well? Has he brought in younger coaches and managers throughout the system? Has he made good small moves - waiver claims, minor league free agents, rule v picks?

    What he hasn't done is waste money on large FA signings that wouldn't have helped the team anyway.
    Has he made any improvement to the W/L record?
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    Has he made any improvement to the W/L record?
    No...but TR got smiley bonus points for "not making any large FA signings"...Because...they "wouldn't help"....even though, now, based on this interview with TR, and what Jim Pohlad has stated....large FA signings will help...it gets confusing......
    Last edited by jokin; 10-23-2013 at 04:49 PM.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    I find it stunning that people can look at what he's done the last two years as GM and still be anti-Ryan. He's a very good GM.
    What has he done these last two years that constitutes being very good? I definitely like the May and Meyer trades, but beyond that, I'm not sure what you think he's done that is so undeniably great. From my side of the picture, I see a GM who has more or less done nothing to improve any of the team's pressing needs, and had the benefit of a miserable team for high draft picks, if Buxton signing was supposed to be something impressive about TR.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    I find it stunning that people can look at what he's done the last two years as GM and still be anti-Ryan. He's a very good GM.
    That's a bizarre stance. From this article - Ryan appears to be anti-Ryan. He refused to fire a manage because of what he perceived to be his own failures.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    Has he made any improvement to the W/L record?
    Do you think the Twins were in a situation where a quick fix was possible?

  16. #36
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    I really have no interest in continuing this discussion. I laid out things I would change. You disagree. Neither of us is going to change the others mind.
    Lighten up Francis....

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    Has he made any improvement to the W/L record?
    To be fair, a GM doesn't make much of an impact on a MLB roster until year 4. You can find interviews by Epstein and many other execs that give that number.

    Looking at the Billy Beane teams to whichever GM...it's not until year 3 that teams even begin to have 30% of the rostered players under the direction/action of the new GM.

  18. #38
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    Where is Ryan against Math & Science? Is it stated somewhere?

    I may have missed it if so.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    Do you think the Twins were in a situation where a quick fix was possible?
    I think improving a 95 loss team with obvious needs and abundant resources over the space of 2 offseasons is a low bar to jump. He wasn't able to do that.

    Success is pretty easy to measure in MLB. Anything other than wins and losses doesn't count for much in my book.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

  20. #40
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    Ryan says the judges Gardy on things like "in-game strategy" and how he handles guys out of line, how "prepared" the players are for games.

    Should we start with first inning runs? I guess that wouldn't be fair because the Twins starters are so poor. Not really a measure of "preparation" for a MLB game, I guess.

    Should we talk about pick-off plays, hit and run plays, bunt defense, positioning? I guess, those are hard to measure, but one cannot argue that the Twins excel in these areas, can one?

    Well, okay, let's take the in-game strategy part of this. Look at the Yankees four-game series against the Twins in early July. Robinson Cano, who was basically the only guy who could beat the Twins because of all their injuries, was allowed to beat the Twins four games in a row. They pitched to him, they pitched to him, and they pitched to him -- and, he beat them, four games in a row. The worst Yankee's team in quite some time, allowed to come in and sweep -- like the Twins are their doormat. Mostly because the Twins pitchers were, I'm sorry, unprepared and had no strategy.

    Guys out of line. I don't like the way Gardy disciplines his rookies through the media -- complaining about Hicks and the way he one-hands a fly ball. Rookies, in particular, should be handled one-on-one out of the glare of the media. Gardy has a hard time with that. He goes after his young players in the media constantly. Sorry, very poor skills there.

    The problem here is that Ryan is shielding Gardy. It is true, as far as it goes, that Ryan gives Gardy the players. But, you know what, look at the Cardinals, look at Boston, sure they have more talent, but they also are getting more mileage out of their young and role-players than the Twins and many teams in baseball. How do they do it? That's the gazillion dollar question.

    But, just to say, it is possible, given Gardy's cards to get more out of them than he does, or has, for the last number of years. Gardy is not getting any extra mileage out of the guys he's given. That's called "adding value" and that is, at the end of the day, how a manager can and should be judged.

    After 11 years, maybe it's because Gardy has lost something or the players tune him out. Either way, after a full decade, sometimes you need a change, sometimes a new strategy, sometimes a new voice, and that's what Ryan doesn't get. Sure, he's still Gardy, but IT HAS BEEN 11 YEARS, TERRY.

    The fact that management is willing to just dither through this is proof the Twins are one of the most poorly owned organizations in MLB.

    Sorry. But true. This would not happen to any other team in baseball. Look it up.

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