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Thread: Talks with Bronson Arroyo "heating up"

  1. #61
    Super Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Well, yeah...but what about the "good" part? I assume that's relatively speaking?

    He's no Hall of Famer, but in 2013 he finished 28th in the NL in ERA+. Back-of-the-envelope, that's about two pitchers per team like that. It was a typical season for him - 2012 was a bit better, 2011 was worse. It's not easy to be 100 ERA+ as a fulltime starter, year in and year out. If he's not "good", it's going to be extremely difficult to acquire someone who is.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    If they are going to blow 2-3 years on a 37 year old, why not go after Burnett?
    From Passan
    16. A.J. Burnett, SP: On one hand, he led baseball in strikeout rate among starters and paired that with an absurd 56.5 percent groundball rate. On the other, he says he only wants to go back to Pittsburgh and doesnít seem to mind killing his free-agent value. To each his own.

    There have been multiple other reports saying the same thing on Burnett.
    http://triblive.com/sports/pirates/4...#axzz2fMCrLDBa

  3. #63
    Senior Member All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    If I could 'like' your post, Hugh, I would (but alas that feature seems to have disappeared). Regardless, nice, even-handed take.

  4. #64
    Senior Member All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    He's no Hall of Famer, but in 2013 he finished 28th in the NL in ERA+. Back-of-the-envelope, that's about two pitchers per team like that. It was a typical season for him - 2012 was a bit better, 2011 was worse. It's not easy to be 100 ERA+ as a fulltime starter, year in and year out. If he's not "good", it's going to be extremely difficult to acquire someone who is.
    There was a face.

    With a tongue.

  5. #65
    Senior Member Triple-A
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    Can we sign both Arroyo & Hudson giving the team the oldest starting rotation in history?

    Arroyo
    Hudson
    Corriea
    Deduno
    Albers

    Ladies & gentleman, your 2014 MN Senior Twins!

  6. #66
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    If your not going to go after an Ace, I am ok with going after these older guys who can stabilize the rotation a little while not having to go 4-5 years on mediocre pitchers.

    They better hope some of these young pitchers start contributing or bust out. There's a lot riding on Meyer, May, & Gibson along with the next wave with Eades, Berrios, Thorpe, Stewart etc...

  7. #67
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    Spending money an Arroyo would at least signal to the baseball world the Twins are serious about spending to add talent. While he is a mid rotation guy, th is a step in the right direction. A much better option than Pelfrey

  8. #68
    Super Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor0333 View Post
    If your not going to go after an Ace, I am ok with going after these older guys who can stabilize the rotation a little while not having to go 4-5 years on mediocre pitchers.

    They better hope some of these young pitchers start contributing or bust out. There's a lot riding on Meyer, May, & Gibson along with the next wave with Eades, Berrios, Thorpe, Stewart etc...
    Please forgive me... I'm sure you know... But I've been reading enough comments about the Twins not going for an ace.

    So to everyone... In my opinion... There is not an ace available in this free agent class.

    Tanaka maybe... I really don't know since his success was on a different continent.
    After that it's Garza... I don't think he's an ace.
    Kuroda is 39.

    The Twins will have to settle for mid rotation or lower down types like Arroyo.

    Trading for an ace will be impossible because our entire roster played themselves into low value and our prospects should be untouchable.

    Just wanted to point that out for no reason... Carry on.
    "9. Lipstick"

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  9. #69
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wise One View Post
    From Passan
    16. A.J. Burnett, SP: On one hand, he led baseball in strikeout rate among starters and paired that with an absurd 56.5 percent groundball rate. On the other, he says he only wants to go back to Pittsburgh and doesn’t seem to mind killing his free-agent value. To each his own.

    There have been multiple other reports saying the same thing on Burnett.
    http://triblive.com/sports/pirates/4...#axzz2fMCrLDBa
    Yes, I wasn't aware Burnett had made his preference public. He's a special case.

    Just last offseason the Cubs made several free agent pickups. So did the Brewers. So did Toronto. So did Pittsburgh. So did the Indians - all coming off lousy seasons. So when Terry Ryan says players won't play for a non-contender, I think that's a lousy excuse.

    Here's a challenge to those who think money isn't the overriding factor: find a report from Milwaukee about Lohse turning down more money from other clubs to play in Milwaukee, like we now know was the case with Correia. Or for Michael Bourn and Nick Swisher - were they offered more money to play elsewhere like Willingham was?
    Last edited by Willihammer; 11-13-2013 at 09:41 PM.

  10. #70
    Super Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    There was a face.

    With a tongue.
    So then, if it was tongue in cheek, you're going to have to dumb it down for me about 200 IQ points, to help me understand what your point actually was.

  11. #71
    Senior Member All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    So then, if it was tongue in cheek, you're going to have to dumb it down for me about 200 IQ points, to help me understand what your point actually was.
    To make a joke about the Twins usual free agent pitching targets and their current staff. See: Correia or Sidney Ponson. Or Jason Marquis.

    I'm sure I violated some sort of policy and that's why you're bullying my attempt at fun out of the thread. My apologies for cracking a joke and including an obvious tongue-in-cheek smiley face with it.
    Last edited by TheLeviathan; 11-13-2013 at 10:11 PM.

  12. #72
    Senior Member All-Star Bark's Lounge's Avatar
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    If the Twins sign Arroyo, I will not soil myself, I will not puke on the dinner table at Thanksgiving.

    From afar, I have always liked Arroyo. Sure, he is not the dream come true signing, but like R. Brian has stated there is no ace on the FA landscape.

    Obviously Bronson is a PTC pitcher, but I have always dug his persona and I think he would be a clubhouse differential kind of guy. Someone with a little flare and a character to a large degree... maybe it will rub off on a few of his teammates.

    He will play his guitar and sing his teammates some Alt. Rock songs and he will pitch better than anyone we have had on this ball club in a few years. He is more promising to me than the Correia signing.

    Thumbs up if it happens!
    I suddenly remembered my Charlemagne. Let my armies be the rocks and the trees and the birds in the sky.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    Yes, I wasn't aware Burnett had made his preference public. He's a special case.

    Just last offseason the Cubs made several free agent pickups. So did the Brewers. So did Toronto. So did Pittsburgh. So did the Indians - all coming off lousy seasons. So when Terry Ryan says players won't play for a non-contender, I think that's a lousy excuse.

    Here's a challenge to those who think money isn't the overriding factor: find a report from Milwaukee about Lohse turning down more money from other clubs to play in Milwaukee, like we now know was the case with Correia. Or for Michael Bourn and Nick Swisher - were they offered more money to play elsewhere like Willingham was?
    1. So flirting with the division lead before faltering to a 79 win team makes you a lousy team? If this is the average fan opinion most teams are screwed.
    2. Find me a report that said another team offered Bourn and Loshe a contract elsewhere of the same length.
    3. Yes many teams made pickups. How many of them were highly ranked? All teams sign free agents. How many of them sign the top tier? KC had to trade for top level pitching talent to get to 86-76.

    I suppose there is a large fan base out there that take everything literally so Ryan would need to spend a half a day defining every word said. There are players that would really help your club, there are players that were little better than replacements. Which type of player when people, not just GMs, are talking about when they say they should go out and get a free agent?

  14. #74
    Senior Member Triple-A goulik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wise One View Post
    1. So flirting with the division lead before faltering to a 79 win team makes you a lousy team? If this is the average fan opinion most teams are screwed.
    I think most people fall under this "average fan" description (fair weather fans?) and fail to look at above average as good. I enjoy being a Vikings fan because they are usually a good team but hate listening to people whine about how lousy they are when they are 9-7 or 10-6 but not real contenders! (Yes, I know this year they actually are lousy) Those are still good years, just not great!
    I do want Super Bowls. I remember Fran Tarkington and the Purple People Eaters. I also watched or listened to every game in 87 and want that again but a true fan (abbreviation of Fanatic btw) should recognize rebuilding will take some average and above average years on the way to the World Series. The 87 core came up in 82?
    none of this means we should be accepting of the past three years, they sucked to live through (so did the late 70s and early 80s) but let's be realistic. TR is still rebuilding Bill Smiths mess and he has done a nice job rebuilding the "system" but MLB results take time and I want to see more wins next year. +10 would be appropriate. Do I want and dream of more? Yes!! But give me at least that +10!!

  15. #75
    Senior Member Triple-A goulik's Avatar
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    P.S. To the Moderators/rulers of TD... Please bring back the Like Button.... please!!

  16. #76
    Super Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    Please forgive me... I'm sure you know... But I've been reading enough comments about the Twins not going for an ace.

    So to everyone... In my opinion... There is not an ace available in this free agent class.

    Tanaka maybe... I really don't know since his success was on a different continent.
    After that it's Garza... I don't think he's an ace.
    Kuroda is 39.

    The Twins will have to settle for mid rotation or lower down types like Arroyo.

    Trading for an ace will be impossible because our entire roster played themselves into low value and our prospects should be untouchable.

    Just wanted to point that out for no reason... Carry on.
    I tend to agree about this year, RB.

    My problems with this are:

    Arroyo isn't the best that's available this year, and

    When there are aces available, the Twins find reasons not to pursue them.

    so I have a hard time giving them a pass this year.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

  17. #77
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    Quote Originally Posted by zchrz View Post
    The twins have been using this logic for years now trying to clone Brad Radke and it has led to the glut of 4th/5th/AAAA starters that have made up the rotation. Velocity isn't everything but it sure helps and at this point, at least for me, it would be nice to see them attempt to pursue it instead of pitchibility.
    Pelfry throws what 94. That didn't help much last year. Not saying I would reconsider resigning him but his ERA was over 5.00.

  18. #78
    Super Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    So when Terry Ryan says players won't play for a non-contender, I think that's a lousy excuse.
    Hey, Hammer... You know me... I'm not trying to be a prick... But can you point me to that quote. I hadn't seen it.

    If Ryan used those words publicly... That would be a mistake of poor salesmanship on his part. And I tend to defend Ryan. I'll forgive him but a mistake nonetheless.
    "9. Lipstick"

    "How can Canada produce Tie Domi and not have a better military"?

    "I noticed while robbing the First State Bank last night that if you go into the vault when nobody is looking... You can get away with it".

  19. #79
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    Any pitcher that can give you 200+ innings at slightly better than league average on a short term contract is a no brainer to sign even if its an overpay. With a starting pitcher like that and our bullpen being way better than average, we are positioned to win more games than we loose with him as long as we get league average offense. Now we just need to duplicate that 5 times instead of wanting to pin it all on one expensive high risk all in pitcher. It doesn't matter if the pitcher is Arroyo or Santana or Pelfry (I doubt he will pitch much if any better than average but still)...if we can have a team era better than average for the 1500 inning season and score league average offense we should have a winning season. As far as Arroyo is concerned, if the Twins want him for 2 years maybe 13-14 million per to get it done or add a 3rd season or option that's reachable.....We add some one like Kazmir and that's 400 innings of 3.80-3.90 era for our rotation which is huge. someone should add up how much the 4th and 5th starters gave up last year and compare to what these 2 should give up and see how many runs we are likely to shave off of last seasons total all other being equal.

  20. #80
    Super Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    I tend to agree about this year, RB.

    My problems with this are:

    Arroyo isn't the best that's available this year, and

    When there are aces available, the Twins find reasons not to pursue them.

    so I have a hard time giving them a pass this year.
    Fair enough

    Sometimes I get the impression that some TD'ers judge pitchers like Arroyo in comparison to Kershaw instead of judged in comparison to someone like Hughes.

    Personally... I think Arroyo is an eye of the beholder thing. I like him better than Hughes.

    However... I want to be clear... I like Wacha better than Arroyo.
    "9. Lipstick"

    "How can Canada produce Tie Domi and not have a better military"?

    "I noticed while robbing the First State Bank last night that if you go into the vault when nobody is looking... You can get away with it".

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