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Thread: Talks with Bronson Arroyo "heating up"

  1. #101
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    What's amazing to me about this thread is that the Twins are considering signing a pitcher who has avg 202ip, 105 ERA+ and 3 WAR per season for the last couple years (while playing in a hitter's park) and people are complaining.
    Yeah consistency is important. And one might believe that the homers drop in TF.

    Also, anything that keeps Arroyo from retiring and pursuing his "music" career is good.

  2. #102
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    I predict a very Pavanoesque contract coming for Arroyo. There are too many teams looking for a consistent, low-risk guy like Arroyo. I will predict he ends up in San Francisco.

  3. #103
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    The two seasons on either side of that bad 2011 season are creepily similar.

  4. #104
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    An innings-eater is not a bad idea for this club, and I agree- IF he's the #2 along with a #1 SP signing. Twins might be able to push JJ's hometown buttons and get a favorable deal- why not take a shot?

    I don't see Hudson coming to MN, but Hughes & Kazmir seem like reasonable targets/doable deals. E. Santana is dreaming $$$; we'll see if MLB drinks his Kool-Aid or not. If the bottom falls out for him, sign him.

    What I do not understand is the Twins addiction to a nit-picking/nibbling the zone, pitch-to-contact philosophy when we have a pitcher's park. Does TR know where to drive come game time?

    We have a different park now, play on grass, and the team's pitching coaching, philosophy & FA acquisitions must reflect this new reality. We have a surplus of OFs with speed & leather in place in or on the way- hello, Byron- and yet we are stuck in a small-ball/Dome-based approach, fooling nobody. Why?

    For the first time I can remember, Twins have more cash than they know what to do with, and an owner willing to spend. FA signings can't do it all, but get a credible SR and go from there- talented fielders & bats are on the way, and they deserve to be supported with good SP. MN is flyover country for most MLB SP FAs, so we need to pony up to get into the conversation.

    Why do Twins SPs take off once they leave MN? Apparently we can develop SPs and OFs. Why are the Twins MLB's gift that keeps on giving? This has to end eventually, and if TR doesn't come through this winter, show him the door. Almost time for a housecleaning.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    This is the man who also said Correia "left money on the table." Turns out Willingham did too.

    So what I suspect is going on is the same thing this offseason. Ryan casting a wide lowball net, fishing for players with a unique reason to play in MN for a discount. And when he doesn't find any, the lip service we get is "they want to play for a contender." Well, if that's true, then I guess none of these guys will wind up in Chicago, Seattle, NYM, Houston, etc.
    This is pretty much my take on it too. (My "Like" button disappeared?)

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    I predict a very Pavanoesque contract coming for Arroyo. There are too many teams looking for a consistent, low-risk guy like Arroyo. I will predict he ends up in San Francisco.
    Like, Yankees Pavano-esque? 4 years? I don't see that.

    More like Twins Pavano-esque (2/16) with a boost for durability/inflation.

  7. #107
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    Teams can only spend from their draft pool as determined by record on international FA.

  8. #108
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    If ever there was a time for the Twins to go after the high risk high reward pitcher this is it. As long as they can keep the contract to four years or fewer go after the strike out pitchers. Even if the guy gets hurt the first day on the job you have tons of pitch to contact pitchers in AAA. For once things line up to go after a real pitcher there really are no good excuses here. Swing for the fences Terry don't get caught in double play.

  9. #109
    Super Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/231680191.html



    This is the man who also said Correia "left money on the table." Turns out Willingham did too.

    So what I suspect is going on is the same thing this offseason. Ryan casting a wide lowball net, fishing for players with a unique reason to play in MN for a discount. And when he doesn't find any, the lip service we get is "they want to play for a contender." Well, if that's true, then I guess none of these guys will wind up in Chicago, Seattle, NYM, Houston, etc.
    Thanks for the link.

    I guess... You and I just read it different.

    You see a lot more in between those lines.
    "9. Lipstick"

    "How can Canada produce Tie Domi and not have a better military"?

    "I noticed while robbing the First State Bank last night that if you go into the vault when nobody is looking... You can get away with it".

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    I guess... You and I just read it different.

    You see a lot more in between those lines.
    That's what is so great about the internet. You can make any sort of conclusion or assumptions you want!

    Problem is, there's no way to make a solid, evidence-based case otherwise based on the track record (outside of quotes, which so often get manipulated to fit a narrative). I'm afraid even should there be examples soon, it'll be mocked as 'that one time' or some other fault.

  11. #111
    Super Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay View Post
    That's what is so great about the internet. You can make any sort of conclusion or assumptions you want!

    Problem is, there's no way to make a solid, evidence-based case otherwise based on the track record (outside of quotes, which so often get manipulated to fit a narrative). I'm afraid even should there be examples soon, it'll be mocked as 'that one time' or some other fault.
    I agree that quotes are often stretched... pulled... twisted to match the readers particular minds eye.

    However... On the other side... Quotes are often carefully crafted by those being quoted and often end up being a false or incomplete impression of what is real behind the doors.

    I rarely trust quotes. I've been quoted... I've had to carefully choose the words I used to protect relationships and strategy and at the same time I've seen the context stripped away from my quotes and end up printed with a perception 10 miles from the truth without the surrounding context.

    In the end... The quotee... Can't be comprehensive... The quoter can't be comprehensive and nuance is hopelessly gone before it can even start. On top of that... The reader has varied levels of understanding and prejudice or even interest.

    Yeah... I rarely put trust in quotes. As a way of getting information.
    "9. Lipstick"

    "How can Canada produce Tie Domi and not have a better military"?

    "I noticed while robbing the First State Bank last night that if you go into the vault when nobody is looking... You can get away with it".

  12. #112
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    Tim Hudson to the Giants, 2/23, taking out a rumored Arroyo suitor. (The Giants were also rumored, albeit weakly, to be inquiring after Nolasco.)

    What does that mean for Arroyo's expected contract? Hudson is coming off injury, although not to his arm, but when healthy, he is a bit better/safer than Arroyo, I think.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by spycake View Post
    Tim Hudson to the Giants, 2/23, taking out a rumored Arroyo suitor. (The Giants were also rumored, albeit weakly, to be inquiring after Nolasco.)

    What does that mean for Arroyo's expected contract? Hudson is coming off injury, although not to his arm, but when healthy, he is a bit better/safer than Arroyo, I think.
    Not sure what his compensation means but Hudson pitched for Oakland and SF has won the Series twice in the previous four seasons, so it's reasonable to think they still have a "contending" team.

  14. #114
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    Also the Hudson signing doesn't mean the Giants wont still sign Arroyo too.

    Also I haven't heard any new rumors out there. Does anyone know when we plan to get around to making offers? or Are we going to wait till the dust settles and go with what's left?
    Last edited by Brandon; 11-18-2013 at 08:39 PM.

  15. #115
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    Does that bother anyone else; us going after guys hard but a week later and still no rumored offers? I had hopes that they were ready to wow some guys and get them to sign early, but with each passing day I become a little more sceptical.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chance View Post
    Does that bother anyone else; us going after guys hard but a week later and still no rumored offers? I had hopes that they were ready to wow some guys and get them to sign early, but with each passing day I become a little more sceptical.
    No need for skepticism. Just because there hasn't been formal offers put out there doesn't mean they are not talking numbers. I would guess we have a lot of agents waiting for first deals to get out there and then the dominoes will start falling.

    By all accounts the FO is going out and trying for some of the top names in the FA pool. That is way different than last year, and really its all we can ask for, to be in the mix. Hopefully they can land a few.

  17. #117
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Oldgoat_MN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goulik View Post
    P.S. To the Moderators/rulers of TD... Please bring back the Like Button.... please!!
    Like!
    I'm on a whiskey diet. I've lost 3 days already.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by clutterheart View Post
    No need for skepticism. Just because there hasn't been formal offers put out there doesn't mean they are not talking numbers. I would guess we have a lot of agents waiting for first deals to get out there and then the dominoes will start falling.

    By all accounts the FO is going out and trying for some of the top names in the FA pool. That is way different than last year, and really its all we can ask for, to be in the mix. Hopefully they can land a few.
    Just sign Tanaka. Even if he failed miserably I don't think any fans would be upset. I'm sick of scraping the bottom of the barrel or having an ultimate best case scenario of getting Arroyo or Nolasco.

  19. #119
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Oldgoat_MN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chance View Post
    Does that bother anyone else; us going after guys hard but a week later and still no rumored offers? I had hopes that they were ready to wow some guys and get them to sign early, but with each passing day I become a little more sceptical.
    Yes. It bothers me. A lot.

    I know it's early. I know there is plenty of time.
    But that is what you do when you are pussy-footing around, trying to get a deal.

    The Twins need to stand up and actually PAY for a potential top of the rotation pitcher. There are a few out there that might actually have excellent years. The kind of arms that are not a band-aid for 2014, but maybe useful for the Twins' future.

    They are so proud of players who leave money on the table to sign here. Well, congratulations. That is part of what has gotten us 3 seasons in a row in which our team lost over 95 games.

    Arroyo would be fine, but only if there was a significant signing along with him.

    TR is concentrating on the wrong end of the list right now.
    I have lost all confidence that he has any intention in signing a pitcher that will be above league average.

    So much so that I have stopped coming to TD many days. Love the Twins, hate what occurs as a lie of an effort to improve the club.

    And you don't even have a like button any more.
    My world crumbles...
    I'm on a whiskey diet. I've lost 3 days already.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by darin617 View Post
    What does the velocity of a fastball have to do about whether a pitcher is any good or not. Greg Maddux was one of the greatest pitchers in the 90's and never threw over 89 mph on a good day and he will be a Hall of Famer on the first ballot. I am not trying to compare Arroyo with Maddux by no means but you don't need to throw hard to win you just have to be smart and know how work the strike zone.
    While Bronson Arroyo is hands down a better starter then any thing the twins had last year , he is once again what a Ryanite would covet, a soft tossing controll pitcher....While having 1 or 2 in your rotation is ok having 5 makes it to easy for the opposing team, no contrast

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