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Thread: 2014 HoF ballot

  1. #101
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    Rank Player (yrs age) WAR HOF ?? Years WAR/yr WAR/YR Rank

    46 Eddie Plank+ (17) 89.8 HOF 17 5.3 41
    38 Roberto Clemente+ (18) 94.3 HOF 18 5.2 42
    116 Tony Mullane (13) 67.8 - 13 5.2 43
    82 Arky Vaughan+ (14) 73.0 HOF 14 5.2 44
    207 Joe Gordon+ (11) 57.1 HOF 11 5.2 45
    266 Silver King (10) 51.9 - 10 5.2 46
    23 Nap Lajoie+ (21) 107.2 HOF 21 5.1 47
    24 Frank Robinson+ (21) 107.1 HOF 21 5.1 48
    42 Wade Boggs+ (18) 91.0 HOF 18 5.1 49
    231 Miguel Cabrera (11, 30) 54.6 - 11 5.0 50
    13 Eddie Collins+ (25) 124.0 HOF 25 5.0 51
    80 Pud Galvin+ (15) 73.7 HOF 15 4.9 52
    22 Mel Ott+ (22) 107.9 HOF 22 4.9 53
    144 Vic Willis+ (13) 63.5 HOF 13 4.9 54
    32 Jimmie Foxx+ (20) 97.4 HOF 20 4.9 55
    148 Mickey Welch+ (13) 63.1 HOF 13 4.9 56
    154 Home Run Baker+ (13) 62.6 HOF 13 4.8 57
    123 Don Drysdale+ (14) 67.2 HOF 14 4.8 58
    156 Shoeless Joe Jackson (13) 62.4 - 13 4.8 59
    31 Warren Spahn+ (21) 100.1 HOF 21 4.8 60
    91 Johnny Mize+ (15) 70.9 HOF 15 4.7 61
    92 Ron Santo+ (15) 70.6 HOF 15 4.7 62
    133 Ed Walsh+ (14) 65.6 HOF 14 4.7 63
    270 Ted Breitenstein (11) 51.5 - 11 4.7 64
    53 Roger Connor+ (18) 84.2 HOF 18 4.7 65
    55 Pedro Martinez (18) 84.0 - 18 4.7 66
    25 Greg Maddux (23) 106.8 - 23 4.6 67
    28 Randy Johnson (22) 102.1 - 22 4.6 68
    280 Jack Stivetts (11) 50.9 - 11 4.6 69
    57 Mike Mussina (18) 83.0 - 18 4.6 70
    30 Joe Morgan+ (22) 100.4 HOF 22 4.6 71
    36 Cal Ripken+ (21) 95.6 HOF 21 4.6 72
    49 Robin Roberts+ (19) 86.0 HOF 19 4.5 73
    189 Urban Shocker (13) 58.7 - 13 4.5 74
    146 Billy Hamilton+ (14) 63.1 HOF 14 4.5 75
    191 Ichiro Suzuki (13, 39) 58.5 - 13 4.5 76
    192 Rube Waddell+ (13) 58.5 HOF 13 4.5 77
    50 Chipper Jones (19) 85.2 - 19 4.5 78
    51 Fergie Jenkins+ (19) 84.9 HOF 19 4.5 79
    202 Hank Greenberg+ (13) 57.6 HOF 13 4.4 80
    19 Rickey Henderson+ (25) 110.7 HOF 25 4.4 81
    75 Johnny Bench+ (17) 75.2 HOF 17 4.4 82
    93 Adrian Beltre (16, 34) 70.5 - 16 4.4 83
    208 Bob Johnson (13) 57.1 - 13 4.4 84
    101 Ed Delahanty+ (16) 69.5 HOF 16 4.3 85
    37 Bert Blyleven+ (22) 95.4 HOF 22 4.3 86
    176 Stan Coveleski+ (14) 60.2 HOF 14 4.3 87
    275 Johan Santana (12, 34) 51.4 - 12 4.3 88
    60 Rod Carew+ (19) 81.2 HOF 19 4.3 89
    85 Larry Walker (17) 72.6 - 17 4.3 90

  2. #102
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    Rank Player (yrs age) WAR HOF ?? Years WAR/yr WAR/YR Rank
    225 CC Sabathia (13, 32) 55.4 - 13 4.3 91
    61 Charlie Gehringer+ (19) 80.7 HOF 19 4.2 92
    86 Harry Heilmann+ (17) 72.2 HOF 17 4.2 93
    283 Kirby Puckett+ (12) 50.8 HOF 12 4.2 94
    145 Richie Ashburn+ (15) 63.4 HOF 15 4.2 95
    119 Ryne Sandberg+ (16) 67.6 HOF 16 4.2 96
    52 George Davis+ (20) 84.4 HOF 20 4.2 97
    120 Carlos Beltran (16, 36) 67.5 - 16 4.2 98
    121 Carl Hubbell+ (16) 67.5 HOF 16 4.2 99
    47 George Brett+ (21) 88.4 HOF 21 4.2 100
    41 Al Kaline+ (22) 92.6 HOF 22 4.2 101
    149 Lou Boudreau+ (15) 63.0 HOF 15 4.2 102
    152 Ken Boyer (15) 62.9 - 15 4.2 103
    90 Bobby Grich (17) 71.0 - 17 4.2 104
    35 Carl Yastrzemski+ (23) 96.0 HOF 23 4.2 105
    197 Eddie Cicotte (14) 58.0 - 14 4.1 106
    129 Pee Wee Reese+ (16) 66.2 HOF 16 4.1 107
    43 Gaylord Perry+ (22) 91.0 HOF 22 4.1 108
    66 Dan Brouthers+ (19) 78.3 HOF 19 4.1 109
    99 Scott Rolen (17) 70.0 - 17 4.1 110
    201 Bobby Bonds (14) 57.6 - 14 4.1 111
    162 Wes Ferrell (15) 61.6 - 15 4.1 112
    253 Elmer Flick+ (13) 53.1 HOF 13 4.1 113
    136 Roy Halladay (16, 36) 64.6 - 16 4.0 114
    69 Ozzie Smith+ (19) 76.5 HOF 19 4.0 115
    33 Phil Niekro+ (24) 96.6 HOF 24 4.0 116
    214 Mordecai Brown+ (14) 56.3 HOF 14 4.0 117
    264 Mickey Cochrane+ (13) 52.1 HOF 13 4.0 118
    114 Kenny Lofton (17) 68.1 - 17 4.0 119
    62 Curt Schilling (20) 79.9 - 20 4.0 120
    76 Sam Crawford+ (19) 75.2 HOF 19 4.0 121
    147 Juan Marichal+ (16) 63.1 HOF 16 3.9 122
    77 Lou Whitaker (19) 74.8 - 19 3.9 123
    124 Roberto Alomar+ (17) 66.8 HOF 17 3.9 124
    188 Dick Allen (15) 58.7 - 15 3.9 125
    234 Bill Terry+ (14) 54.3 HOF 14 3.9 126
    159 Mark McGwire (16) 62.0 - 16 3.9 127
    81 Frank Thomas (19) 73.6 - 19 3.9 128
    68 Robin Yount+ (20) 77.1 HOF 20 3.9 129
    295 Roy Oswalt (13, 35) 50.1 - 13 3.9 130

  3. #103
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    Rank Player (yrs age) WAR HOF ?? Years WAR/yr WAR/YR Rank

    161 Sal Bando (16) 61.6 - 16 3.9 131
    239 Mark Buehrle (14, 34) 53.9 - 14 3.9 132
    297 Eddie Rommel (13) 50.0 - 13 3.8 133
    242 Joe Sewell+ (14) 53.8 HOF 14 3.8 134
    248 Jimmy Collins+ (14) 53.3 HOF 14 3.8 135
    56 Ken Griffey (22) 83.6 - 22 3.8 136
    210 Tim Hudson (15, 37) 57.0 - 15 3.8 137
    111 Edgar Martinez (18) 68.3 - 18 3.8 138
    139 Reggie Smith (17) 64.4 - 17 3.8 139
    213 George Sisler+ (15) 56.7 HOF 15 3.8 140
    140 Monte Ward+ (17) 64.1 HOF 17 3.8 141
    88 Derek Jeter (19, 39) 71.6 - 19 3.8 142
    44 Steve Carlton+ (24) 90.4 HOF 24 3.8 143
    216 Will Clark (15) 56.2 - 15 3.7 144
    179 Jesse Burkett+ (16) 59.9 HOF 16 3.7 145
    180 Vladimir Guerrero (16) 59.9 - 16 3.7 146
    181 Dazzy Vance+ (16) 59.9 HOF 16 3.7 147
    262 Larry Jackson (14) 52.2 - 14 3.7 148
    78 Luke Appling+ (20) 74.5 HOF 20 3.7 149
    222 Jim Wynn (15) 55.7 - 15 3.7 150
    151 Hal Newhouser+ (17) 63.0 HOF 17 3.7 151
    94 Frankie Frisch+ (19) 70.4 HOF 19 3.7 152
    59 Tom Glavine (22) 81.4 - 22 3.7 153
    184 Mike Piazza (16) 59.2 - 16 3.7 154
    185 Bret Saberhagen (16) 59.2 - 16 3.7 155
    97 Barry Larkin+ (19) 70.2 HOF 19 3.7 156
    127 Duke Snider+ (18) 66.5 HOF 18 3.7 157
    187 Sherry Magee (16) 59.1 - 16 3.7 158
    153 Andruw Jones (17) 62.7 - 17 3.7 159
    98 Rick Reuschel (19) 70.0 - 19 3.7 160
    155 David Cone (17) 62.5 - 17 3.7 161
    100 Gary Carter+ (19) 69.8 HOF 19 3.7 162
    130 Goose Goslin+ (18) 66.1 HOF 18 3.7 163
    229 Bobby Mathews (15) 55.0 - 15 3.7 164
    276 Bobby Doerr+ (14) 51.3 HOF 14 3.7 165
    131 Buddy Bell (18) 65.9 - 18 3.7 166
    103 Jim Palmer+ (19) 69.4 HOF 19 3.7 167
    132 Willie Randolph (18) 65.6 - 18 3.6 168
    84 Paul Waner+ (20) 72.8 HOF 20 3.6 169
    106 Manny Ramirez (19, 41) 69.1 - 19 3.6 170

  4. #104
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    Rank Player (yrs age) WAR HOF ?? Years WAR/yr WAR/YR Rank

    232 Billy Herman+ (15) 54.5 HOF 15 3.6 171
    163 Jack Glasscock (17) 61.4 - 17 3.6 172
    165 Todd Helton (17, 39) 61.3 - 17 3.6 173
    73 Paul Molitor+ (21) 75.5 HOF 21 3.6 174
    109 Kevin Brown (19) 68.3 - 19 3.6 175
    87 Rafael Palmeiro (20) 71.8 - 20 3.6 176
    203 Whitey Ford+ (16) 57.4 HOF 16 3.6 177
    74 Bill Dahlen (21) 75.3 - 21 3.6 178
    243 Wilbur Cooper (15) 53.7 - 15 3.6 179
    206 Dave Stieb (16) 57.2 - 16 3.6 180
    296 Tony Lazzeri+ (14) 50.0 HOF 14 3.6 181
    118 Ernie Banks+ (19) 67.6 HOF 19 3.6 182
    250 Joe Tinker+ (15) 53.3 HOF 15 3.6 183
    172 Bobby Abreu (17) 60.4 - 17 3.6 184
    212 Jack Powell (16) 56.8 - 16 3.6 185
    175 Jim Edmonds (17) 60.3 - 17 3.5 186
    142 Billy Williams+ (18) 63.8 HOF 18 3.5 187
    177 Keith Hernandez (17) 60.1 - 17 3.5 188
    143 Bob Feller+ (18) 63.6 HOF 18 3.5 189
    79 Reggie Jackson+ (21) 74.0 HOF 21 3.5 190
    95 Alan Trammell (20) 70.4 - 20 3.5 191
    258 Al Orth (15) 52.7 - 15 3.5 192
    126 Luis Tiant (19) 66.7 - 19 3.5 193
    182 Jim Bunning+ (17) 59.5 HOF 17 3.5 194
    219 Robin Ventura (16) 55.9 - 16 3.5 195
    39 Cap Anson+ (27) 93.8 HOF 27 3.5 196
    226 Chet Lemon (16) 55.3 - 16 3.5 197
    267 Lance Berkman (15, 37) 51.8 - 15 3.5 198
    107 Tony Gwynn+ (20) 68.9 HOF 20 3.4 199
    193 Chuck Finley (17) 58.4 - 17 3.4 200
    230 Kevin Appier (16) 54.9 - 16 3.4 201
    108 Al Simmons+ (20) 68.6 HOF 20 3.4 202
    198 John Olerud (17) 58.0 - 17 3.4 203
    65 Brooks Robinson+ (23) 78.4 HOF 23 3.4 204
    89 Ted Lyons+ (21) 71.5 HOF 21 3.4 205
    281 Brian Giles (15) 50.8 - 15 3.4 206
    284 Bob Elliott (15) 50.7 - 15 3.4 207
    169 Andy Pettitte (18, 41) 60.8 - 18 3.4 208
    286 Dizzy Trout (15) 50.6 - 15 3.4 209
    170 Willie Davis (18) 60.7 - 18 3.4 210

  5. #105
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    Rank Player (yrs age) WAR HOF ?? Years WAR/yr WAR/YR Rank

    289 Carl Mays (15) 50.2 - 15 3.3 211
    125 Dwight Evans (20) 66.7 - 20 3.3 212
    252 Dwight Gooden (16) 53.2 - 16 3.3 213
    128 Joe Cronin+ (20) 66.4 HOF 20 3.3 214
    102 John Smoltz (21) 69.5 - 21 3.3 215
    83 Jim Thome (22) 72.8 - 22 3.3 216
    64 Pete Rose (24) 79.4 - 24 3.3 217
    217 George Uhle (17) 56.0 - 17 3.3 218
    218 Bill Dickey+ (17) 55.9 HOF 17 3.3 219
    261 Stan Hack (16) 52.5 - 16 3.3 220
    223 Joe Medwick+ (17) 55.5 HOF 17 3.3 221
    112 Ivan Rodriguez (21) 68.3 - 21 3.3 222
    113 Eddie Murray+ (21) 68.2 HOF 21 3.2 223
    227 Jeff Kent (17) 55.2 - 17 3.2 224
    134 Craig Biggio (20) 64.9 - 20 3.2 225
    135 Red Faber+ (20) 64.9 HOF 20 3.2 226
    194 Sammy Sosa (18) 58.4 - 18 3.2 227
    117 Fred Clarke+ (21) 67.7 HOF 21 3.2 228
    96 Red Ruffing+ (22) 70.3 HOF 22 3.2 229
    278 Tommy Bridges (16) 51.1 - 16 3.2 230
    204 Joe Torre+ (18) 57.4 HOF 18 3.2 231
    285 Mark Langston (16) 50.7 - 16 3.2 232
    178 Zack Wheat+ (19) 60.0 HOF 19 3.2 233
    211 Orel Hershiser (18) 56.8 - 18 3.2 234
    244 Harry Hooper+ (17) 53.6 HOF 17 3.2 235
    247 Ron Cey (17) 53.3 - 17 3.1 236
    215 Johnny Damon (18) 56.3 - 18 3.1 237
    183 Yogi Berra+ (19) 59.3 HOF 19 3.1 238
    220 Luis Aparicio+ (18) 55.7 HOF 18 3.1 239
    259 Cesar Cedeno (17) 52.6 - 17 3.1 240
    115 Graig Nettles (22) 68.0 - 22 3.1 241
    137 Andre Dawson+ (21) 64.4 HOF 21 3.1 242
    263 Norm Cash (17) 52.1 - 17 3.1 243
    167 Jake Beckley+ (20) 61.0 HOF 20 3.1 244
    70 Bobby Wallace+ (25) 76.2 HOF 25 3.0 245
    58 Nolan Ryan+ (27) 81.8 HOF 27 3.0 246
    277 Toby Harrah (17) 51.2 - 17 3.0 247
    235 Vada Pinson (18) 54.2 - 18 3.0 248
    209 Mariano Rivera (19, 43) 57.1 - 19 3.0 249
    105 Tim Raines (23) 69.1 - 23 3.0 250

  6. #106
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    Rank Player (yrs age) WAR HOF ?? Years WAR/yr WAR/YR Rank

    287 Joe Kelley+ (17) 50.5 HOF 17 3.0 251
    246 Billy Pierce (18) 53.4 - 18 3.0 252
    290 Minnie Minoso (17) 50.2 - 17 3.0 253
    292 Wilbur Wood (17) 50.2 - 17 3.0 254
    160 Clark Griffith+ (21) 61.9 HOF 21 2.9 255
    293 Orlando Cepeda+ (17) 50.1 HOF 17 2.9 256
    294 Torii Hunter (17, 37) 50.1 - 17 2.9 257
    255 Jack Clark (18) 52.9 - 18 2.9 258
    257 Bid McPhee+ (18) 52.7 HOF 18 2.9 259
    138 Willie McCovey+ (22) 64.4 HOF 22 2.9 260
    122 Don Sutton+ (23) 67.3 HOF 23 2.9 261
    141 Dave Winfield+ (22) 64.0 HOF 22 2.9 262
    228 Enos Slaughter+ (19) 55.1 HOF 19 2.9 263
    233 Jose Cruz (19) 54.3 - 19 2.9 264
    236 Bucky Walters (19) 54.2 - 19 2.9 265
    237 Willie Keeler+ (19) 54.1 HOF 19 2.8 266
    110 Carlton Fisk+ (24) 68.3 HOF 24 2.8 267
    241 Jerry Koosman (19) 53.8 - 19 2.8 268
    282 Tony Phillips (18) 50.8 - 18 2.8 269
    251 Bert Campaneris (19) 53.2 - 19 2.8 270
    254 Burleigh Grimes+ (19) 53.0 HOF 19 2.8 271
    190 Darrell Evans (21) 58.5 - 21 2.8 272
    260 Fred McGriff (19) 52.6 - 19 2.8 273
    199 Frank Tanana (21) 57.9 - 21 2.8 274
    173 Harmon Killebrew+ (22) 60.4 HOF 22 2.7 275
    174 Gary Sheffield (22) 60.4 - 22 2.7 276
    265 Babe Adams (19) 52.0 - 19 2.7 277
    205 Willie Stargell+ (21) 57.3 HOF 21 2.7 278
    271 Luis Gonzalez (19) 51.5 - 19 2.7 279
    240 Max Carey+ (20) 53.9 HOF 20 2.7 280
    279 Jason Giambi (19, 42) 51.1 - 19 2.7 281
    166 Early Wynn+ (23) 61.3 HOF 23 2.7 282
    249 Gabby Hartnett+ (20) 53.3 HOF 20 2.7 283
    256 Sam Rice+ (20) 52.9 HOF 20 2.6 284
    224 Eppa Rixey+ (21) 55.4 HOF 21 2.6 285
    150 Dennis Eckersley+ (24) 63.0 HOF 24 2.6 286
    272 Brian Downing (20) 51.4 - 20 2.6 287
    274 Kenny Rogers (20) 51.4 - 20 2.6 288
    245 David Wells (21) 53.6 - 21 2.6 289
    196 Jack Quinn (23) 58.1 - 23 2.5 290
    268 Waite Hoyt+ (21) 51.8 HOF 21 2.5 291
    291 Ted Simmons (21) 50.2 - 21 2.4 292
    158 Tommy John (26) 62.0 - 26 2.4 293
    238 Tony Perez+ (23) 54.0 HOF 23 2.3 294
    269 Jim O'Rourke+ (23) 51.7 HOF 23 2.2 295
    273 Jim Kaat (25) 51.4 - 25 2.1 296
    288 Jamie Moyer (25) 50.4 - 25 2.0 297

  7. #107
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    What constitutes a year when using WAR/year? I couldn't find Lou Brock in the list. Catchers and SS get under-valued in this system.

  8. #108

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by thetank View Post
    What constitutes a year when using WAR/year? I couldn't find Lou Brock in the list. Catchers and SS get under-valued in this system.
    Up the middle players are under-rated in the game in general. Catchers ruin their bodies so much just doing what they do, so you either have a guy who is hot for a short time and quickly succumbs to injuries or a guy who is mediocre, but he hangs on forever and accumulates stats that rank near the top of the position. The real trick is trying to value historical catching defense. We're still three+ years from putting anywhere near an accurate value on framing, and that's something everyone is paying attention to now, so you can imagine how far we are from even accurately evaluating current catchers, let alone catchers in history.

    I'd put shortstops in the same light. So much is demanded of them defensively, and their peak is so short, that they often don't have the career stats to measure up to a corner IF/OF type. A lot of the solid defensive shortstops as young players end up transitioning to 3B as they age because the range, reactions, and plain speed required at shortstop is really a young man's game.

    I could make arguments for a number more catchers and shortstops to be in over the Jim Rices of the world, but the offensive focused traditionalists would have a cow over that.
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  10. #110
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    I heart Greg Maddux. I was lucky enough to meet him once and get his autograph and I remember my dad saying, "That's Greg Maddux? He could be my accountant." Back in the day when all the Braves games were on TBS watching his ability to put the baseball exactly where he wanted...good times.

  11. #111
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by biggentleben View Post
    I could make arguments for a number more catchers and shortstops to be in over the Jim Rices of the world, but the offensive focused traditionalists would have a cow over that.
    They are

    There are as many SS in the HOF as RFs for the highest position (24)
    Ozzie Smith has a career .666 OPS and 87 OPS+
    Luis Aparicio a career .662 OPS and 82 OPS+
    Phil Rizzuto .706 OPS and 93 OPS+
    etc
    those guys are not there for their bats (and should probably not all of them be there)

    That's why I like WAR. Because it takes care of the defense as well. Ozzie Smith has a 76.5 WAR because of his glove. His oWAR is only in the 40s...

    Catchers are the same story, but they are fewer (16)

    Senators' own Rick Ferrell is similar situation with Ozzie Smith. Career .741 OPS and 95 OPS plus are not enough for an OF to be in...
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  13. #112
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    Thanks for rescucitating this thread. Here is my ballot:

    Bonds
    Maddux
    Clemens
    Piazza
    Thomas
    Glavine
    Biggio
    Bagwell
    Raines
    Schilling

    I can't believe that I can't vote for Edgar, Mussina, or Walker.

    Trammell, Kent, Morris were all superstars, too, but just outside for me.

  14. #113
    Senior Member Triple-A raindog's Avatar
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    • Jeff Bagwell
    • Craig Biggio
    • Barry Bonds
    • Roger Clemens
    • Tom Glavine
    • Greg Maddux
    • Edgar Martinez
    • Mike Piazza
    • Sammy Sosa
    • Frank Thomas

    It's ridiculously hard to narrow it down to 10. But they guys above should be in immediately.

  15. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrylos View Post
    They are

    There are as many SS in the HOF as RFs for the highest position (24)
    Ozzie Smith has a career .666 OPS and 87 OPS+
    Luis Aparicio a career .662 OPS and 82 OPS+
    Phil Rizzuto .706 OPS and 93 OPS+
    etc
    those guys are not there for their bats (and should probably not all of them be there)

    That's why I like WAR. Because it takes care of the defense as well. Ozzie Smith has a 76.5 WAR because of his glove. His oWAR is only in the 40s...

    Catchers are the same story, but they are fewer (16)

    Senators' own Rick Ferrell is similar situation with Ozzie Smith. Career .741 OPS and 95 OPS plus are not enough for an OF to be in...
    Jeter's career WAR is 71.6. Is he a "no" for you because he's under your 75-WAR cutoff?

  16. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrylos View Post
    They are

    There are as many SS in the HOF as RFs for the highest position (24)
    Ozzie Smith has a career .666 OPS and 87 OPS+
    Luis Aparicio a career .662 OPS and 82 OPS+
    Phil Rizzuto .706 OPS and 93 OPS+
    etc
    those guys are not there for their bats (and should probably not all of them be there)

    That's why I like WAR. Because it takes care of the defense as well. Ozzie Smith has a 76.5 WAR because of his glove. His oWAR is only in the 40s...

    Catchers are the same story, but they are fewer (16)

    Senators' own Rick Ferrell is similar situation with Ozzie Smith. Career .741 OPS and 95 OPS plus are not enough for an OF to be in...
    WAR is okay to use as a basic analysis but making it the definitive criteria is lazy.

  17. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrylos View Post
    They are

    There are as many SS in the HOF as RFs for the highest position (24)
    Ozzie Smith has a career .666 OPS and 87 OPS+
    Luis Aparicio a career .662 OPS and 82 OPS+
    Phil Rizzuto .706 OPS and 93 OPS+
    etc
    those guys are not there for their bats (and should probably not all of them be there)

    That's why I like WAR. Because it takes care of the defense as well. Ozzie Smith has a 76.5 WAR because of his glove. His oWAR is only in the 40s...

    Catchers are the same story, but they are fewer (16)

    Senators' own Rick Ferrell is similar situation with Ozzie Smith. Career .741 OPS and 95 OPS plus are not enough for an OF to be in...
    How is Ozzie Smith's WAR calculated without PBP data from which to assign UZR numbers?
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

  18. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by biggentleben View Post
    Assuming no further votes (29 total votes):

    IN:
    Maddux 100%
    Biggio 89.66% (26 votes)
    Glavine 89.66%
    Thomas 82.76% (24 votes)

    OUT, over 5%:
    Piazza 68.97% (20)
    Bagwell 62.07% (18)
    Bonds 62.07%
    Clemens 62.07%
    Raines 51.72% (15)
    Morris 27.59% (8)
    Schilling 27.59%
    Mussina 24.14% (7)
    Walker 17.24% (5)
    Trammell 13.79% (4)
    Martinez 10.34% (3)
    McGwire 10.34%
    Smith 10.34%
    Kent 6.90% (2)
    McGriff 6.90%

    OUT, less than 5%:
    Mattingly 3.45% (1)
    Sosa 3.45%
    Palmeiro 0%
    Up to 31 votes, Piazza creeping up to about 72%. Twins Daily has a pretty good ballot, I'd say...those four look like a pretty reasonable guess as to the players to be voted in this week.

    I'd say TD is way low on Morris, and high on Bonds and Clemens. Other than that, pretty spot on. One thing that is off with the TD ballots is the fact that we don't have any dumb "not anyone ballots."

  19. #118
    Go to the Baseball Factory Home Page and they have their collecting Gizmo at over 23% of the votes counted. Maddux, Glavine, and Thomas are going to make it and Biggio is in good shape at over 80%.

  20. #119
    Senior Member Triple-A
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    If more then 3 or 4 don't get in this year the ballot is going to be to full for the next 8 to 10 years with no doubt about it first ballot hall of famers Bonds and Clemens getting 2 votes on most ballots every year and falling short. But it's OK the lesser steroid users who were not the media focus will skate by!!! Why put the greatest player in the last 50 years in the hall of fame when you can just talk about his head being a different size.

  21. #120
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikecgrimes View Post
    Why put the greatest player in the last 50 years in the hall of fame when you can just talk about his head being a different size.
    Love that size of the head talk regarding Bonds and proof of steroid use by big head and big muscles . Check this out:









    Me thinks that Thomas has a bigger head and bigger muscles...

    And for comparison's sake, here is Thomas' rookie card picture:

    Last edited by Thrylos; 01-06-2014 at 04:07 PM.
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    Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
    http://tenthinningstretch.blogspot.com/
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