11-26-2013, 10:04 PM #21
I watched Thomas tee off on Twins pitching all through the 90s and 00s and agree - he was a 1 man wrecking crew. But I'm still waiting for a reason why he should be voted in before any of these other 1Bs and DHs.
11-26-2013, 10:45 PM #22
• Jeff Bagwell- Yes, No Brainer.
• Craig Biggio- Yes, No Brainer.
• Barry Bonds- Yes, No Brainer
• Roger Clemens- Yes, No brainer.
• Tom Glavine Yes, No brainer.
• Jeff Kent No
• Greg Maddux- Yes no brainer.
• Edgar Martinez One of my favorite players ever, Yes. .933 OPS very underated
• Don Mattingly- No
• Fred McGriff- No
• Mark McGwire- No
• Jack Morris- No
• Mike Mussina- No
• Rafael Palmeiro- No
• Mike Piazza- Yes
• Tim Raines- No
• Curt Schilling- No
• Lee Smith- No
• Sammy Sosa- No way
• Frank Thomas- Yes, No Brainer.
• Alan Trammell- No
• Larry Walker- Yes
11-26-2013, 10:47 PM #23
11-26-2013, 11:07 PM #24
11-26-2013, 11:13 PM #25
Maddux, Glavine, Thomas, Raines, Biggio, Bagwell, Piazza, Mussina
11-27-2013, 12:28 AM #26
At least Clemens and Bonds never did that, additionally Bonds and Clemens are just in such a different level of greatness period. Bonds is maybe the best hitter of all time and had plenty of other value as well, and Clemens is the best pitcher of all time. Big Mac though great was pretty one dimensional (the long ball)
As far as other suspected "roid users" i don't really care, I never saw proof for Piazza/Bagwell etc.
11-27-2013, 08:22 AM #27Staff Writer for Tomahawktake.com, come check it out!
11-27-2013, 08:39 AM #28Staff Writer for Tomahawktake.com, come check it out!
11-27-2013, 09:01 AM #29
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Maddox, Biggio, Glavine, Thomas, Morris and Raines.
Some say intentionally not letting guys in on the first ballot is stupid. Well it's tradition to only induct the elite or the guys who hit milestones on the first ballot. If Harmon Killebrew and Joe DiMaggio can't get in on his first try I'm not going to cry for anyone else.
Sorry, steroid suspsects aren't getting in, give it up. I'll it takes is one in four voters to say no and currently it's more like three in four voters. Those cheats knew what kind of stain they would leave on their reputation if caught, I'm not sure why some think they don't have to face the obvious consequences now. And those that were suspected but there may not be much proof? Well that's tough, this looks like it will be your punishment for keeping silent.
11-27-2013, 09:04 AM #30
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Last edited by nicksaviking; 11-27-2013 at 09:07 AM.
11-27-2013, 09:16 AM #31
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this has already been done with more rigor. I think WAR is a good starting place, and don't get me wrong, your method is better than what the writers have actually done in the past and are doing now, but you definitely have to consider the entire story of a player's career, not just their WAR.
And my biggest problem with your cutoff is that its the same for catchers and everyone else. You can't honestly believe that Johnny Bench is the only catcher ever who deserves to be in the HOF.
Anyway my ballot would be:
There are a few more on the ballot that are deserving, but those are my first ten. I think the backlog is going to get a lot worse in the next few years as lots of deserving players split the votes of some writers, while others refuse to vote for anyone ever associated with steroids. I would not be surprised if the Hall made some changes to the selection process within the next 5 years.
Last edited by 2wins87; 11-27-2013 at 09:21 AM. Reason: formatting
11-27-2013, 09:28 AM #32
Maddux, Glavine, Biggio, Thomas, Piazza, and Bagwell all should go in IMO. Bonds and Clemens should be shoe-ins but for the PED thing, so we'll see where that goes.
11-27-2013, 09:35 AM #33
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I also believe that steroids shouldn't disqualify the truly elite (Bonds and Clemons) who were so far above the rest. I know I am in the minority here.
My ballot--Maddox, Clemons, Bonds, Biggio, and Morris (hard choice but most wins in the 90s). That's it. Next year add the Big Hurt and Glavine.
As Thyrlos says--it is the HOF of the very good not the mediocre.
11-27-2013, 11:08 AM #34
Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
11-27-2013, 11:24 AM #35
It's a Hall of Fame, not a Hall of WAR. Entry shouldn't be governed by any one statistic, especially such a new, synthetic one that different people calculate in different ways.
Those who have distorted the record book by using PEDs get to keep the records, and the money, but that's all.
11-27-2013, 12:08 PM #36
11-27-2013, 12:14 PM #37
I looked at the list of candidates and found that I would somehow vote for 14 players. I don't know how I would get it down to ten, and there were actually 2-3 others that I think are very worthy.
The No-Brainers for me: Maddux, Bonds, Clemens, Glavine, Piazza, Biggio, McGwire, Kent, Thomas,
Also would vote for: Sammy Sosa, Rafael Palmiero, Jeff Bagwell, Tim Raines, Fred McGriff.
Then I believe that these guys are also Hall of Fame caliber, but a notch below the above: Curt Schilling, Mike Mussina,
11-27-2013, 12:19 PM #38
I'll concede that a Hall of Fame with a Jack Morris 10 inning world series game 7 shutout display and a Mark McGwire-Sammy Sosa HR chase display could be a heck of a lot more interesting than one with say, Rafael Palmeiro... hitting a HR in another hopeless TX playoff loss.
edit: Out of curiosity, has anyone actually visited the Hall? I have not.
11-27-2013, 12:30 PM #39
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I could easily vote for 15 or so of these. It will be interesting to see how many make it in this year. Hopefully it's at least 3 or 4, cause the ballot is getting really crowded.
11-27-2013, 01:52 PM #40
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I think we will need to show increasing tolerance this year and perhaps for many years to come, simply because of the size of the ballot starting this year. A quick look at the ballot and I've got at least 15 players that I could support. But if I can only vote for 10, then there WILL be worthy players I have to leave off my ballot this year. Based on your philosophy, I could never vote for them in the future when there may be room on my 10-spot ballot? I don't agree with that at all.
I will also say that I strongly disagree with using any one single criteria for determining who should be immortalized. It's the Hall of FAME and fame is subjective by nature.
As for not voting for PED users, I'm not sure any of us should be holding ourselves out as the morality police. I know I shouldn't. I also believe the BBWAA has no business considering themselves the "cheating police." Isn't Mitch Albom still a member of the BBWAA? If so, that says all we need to know about the BBWAA's own tolerance of "cheating."I opine about the Twins and Kernels regularly at Knuckleballsblog.com while my alter ego, SD Buhr covers the Kernels for MetroSportsReport.com.
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