Minnesota Twins News & Rumors Forum
Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 130

Thread: The Return of Mike Pelfrey

  1. #41
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
    Posts
    3,990
    Like
    104
    Liked 386 Times in 201 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    Defenders of Pelfrey straight up amaze me. He has been bad for most of his career. That they offer to HIM and not others by now is pretty indicative of why Terry Ryan needs to be fired on the spot. How is this not clear? This is baffling.
    Fired on the spot for trying to sign a guy who can be a solid back end guy? Ok, yeah that makes sense.

    You are completely wrong about him being "bad" for most of his career:

    Once again, His four full seasons in New York he averaged 196 IP a season along with a 4.27 ERA.

    For comparisons sake:
    Ricky Nolasco's last 4 seasons: 188 IP, 4.48 ERA.
    Bronson Arroyo last 4 seasons: 208 IP, 4.05 ERA (however looking for 30+ mil and 3 years as a 37 year old)
    Phil Hughes last 4 seasons: (Who I advocate signing) 147 IP 4.65 ERA
    Jason Vargas last 4 seasons: 197 IP, 3.97 ERA (32 mil contract signed)

    The beauty about Pelfrey is he will cost literally a FRACTION of those players.

    Sure Pelfrey's 2013 ERA etc look ugly, however as mentioned his FIP and xFIP tell a diff story, and he was a much diff pitcher once he came back to the Twins after more or less a couple weeks off......and he was on a very very aggressive path/timeline back from TJS. His velocity and everything is back to normal (and possible it gets even higher?) and as mentioned his k/9 rate saw an increase...and is still only 29.

    It's actually a perfect buy low signing, especially if they can get a team option for a third year. If he gives you his pre TJS numbers of 185-200 IP and a 4.25-4.35 ERA he is a freaking steal at 5-6 mil a year.

  2. This user likes SpiritofVodkaDave's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    panolo (11-27-2013)

  3. #42
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
    Posts
    3,994
    Like
    4
    Liked 124 Times in 90 Posts
    Blog Entries
    67
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    For all the hate he is getting, Pelfrey lead the staff last year in K/9, WAR and was only .03 behind Albers for the FIP lead. Additionally he was 2nd in IP. I get that the rotation was terrible, but they aren't going to bring in 4 or 5 new pitchers via trades/free agency, so you need to get some cheap production somewhere.
    BR vs. Fangraphs with regard to WAR, again. I am amazed by the defense of this guy. The dude can't get past the fifth inning most of the time and THIS is what you want to sign????????

    How many question marks are needed?

  4. #43
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
    Posts
    3,990
    Like
    104
    Liked 386 Times in 201 Posts
    Also in two of his four full seasons (prior to TJS) Pelfrey posted 3.66 ERA and a 3.72 ERA with over 200 IP each season. Which actually is the opposite of "bad"

  5. #44
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
    Posts
    3,994
    Like
    4
    Liked 124 Times in 90 Posts
    Blog Entries
    67
    Tanaka, Garza, Kuroda (less clear about the Yankees resigning him now), Jimenez, Kazmir, Santana, Feldman, Arroyo, and Hughes.

    Is it so crazy to think the Twins could get some two of these guys? Is one really impossible?

  6. #45
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
    Posts
    995
    Like
    195
    Liked 221 Times in 96 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Also, Ryan earned his stripes the hard way, 6 years as a damn fine scout for the Mets, followed by scouting director by the Twins for 6 years and another couple years as McPhails right hand man before taking over as GM, in which he took one of the lowest payrolled teams in baseball and built the core that won 6 division titles in 9 years with a damn fine run of good trades, including the Knoblauch one, The AJ one, Hollins for David Ortiz, Kelly for Joe Mays, Buchannan for Bartlerr, Kielty for Shannon Stewart, Aggie for Loshe, Milton for Silva/Punto.

    Yeah, things have sucked since he has been back, but he was dealt a pretty ****ty hand and really, has he made a bad trade/bad signing yet?

    I'd like to think I am a pretty smart baseball fan/have been playing/watching/studying my whole life/strong business background etc, however I can say without a doubt I couldn't hold a freaking candle to what Ryan has done and will continue to do, chances are nearly everyone else here would be the exact same (if not everyone). I appreciate the kind words about my blueprint, but there is a ton more going on behind the scenes/complications that none of us are really aware of.

    Also in re: to my blueprint, that would be assuming those players all would sign for the amounts I suggested, whereas there are reports of all 4 guys looking for higher deals (Garza, Salty, Hughes) or 1 year deals (Hughes)
    I'm far too frustrated with everything Twins related at the moment to think or write rationally. I'll give it a shot again tomorrow.

  7. #46
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
    Posts
    3,994
    Like
    4
    Liked 124 Times in 90 Posts
    Blog Entries
    67
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Also in two of his four full seasons (prior to TJS) Pelfrey posted 3.66 ERA and a 3.72 ERA with over 200 IP each season. Which actually is the opposite of "bad"
    Do things like ERA+, WHIP, and K/BB ratio not matter to you at all? Also, his hit rate is great fun.

  8. #47
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
    Posts
    3,990
    Like
    104
    Liked 386 Times in 201 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    BR vs. Fangraphs with regard to WAR, again. I am amazed by the defense of this guy. The dude can't get past the fifth inning most of the time and THIS is what you want to sign????????

    How many question marks are needed?
    You do realize he was coming off Tommy John surgery literally 1 year to the day, right? It typically takes most pitchers some time after that to get back to "normal" by his own admission prior to opening day he admitted "rushing the rehab" in order to get back and get a contract for 2013.

    You do realize this, right? Or do you just want to continue to ignore this (and his success in New York) to fit your tired rhetoric?

  9. #48
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
    Posts
    3,990
    Like
    104
    Liked 386 Times in 201 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    Do things like ERA+, WHIP, and K/BB ratio not matter to you at all? Also, his hit rate is great fun.
    Those two seasons I mentioned he had a 113 and 107 ERA+, you understand how ERA+ works and how your average #4 and #5's rank on it correct? For comparisons sake, Jon Lester, the world series winning Red Sox ace had a 109 ERA+ this season.

    The Twins have had exactly 4 pitchers pitch for a 107 or higher ERA+ in the last 4 years.

  10. #49
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
    Posts
    3,994
    Like
    4
    Liked 124 Times in 90 Posts
    Blog Entries
    67
    Look at career numbers, then. Good grief. In 1049 innings pitched he has a 4.48 ERA, 607 strikeouts, 371 walks, a 1.472 WHIP, a 90 ERA+, and 1,173 hits given up.

    Why would any rational team bother with this kind of production which is simply replacement value (500K)?

  11. #50
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
    Posts
    3,990
    Like
    104
    Liked 386 Times in 201 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    Look at career numbers, then. Good grief. In 1049 innings pitched he has a 4.48 ERA, 607 strikeouts, 371 walks, a 1.472 WHIP, a 90 ERA+, and 1,173 hits given up.

    Why would any rational team bother with this kind of production which is simply replacement value (500K)?
    First off in a total of just a tad over 5 full seasons (adds in the partial seasons of 2013, 2007 and non existent one of 2012) he has 10.2 WAR, which alone indicates he is in fact not replacement level. Also 20% of those numbers (2013) are him coming off of Tommy John Surgery........

    Meanwhile, Nolasco has a 4.37 ERA, 1312 IP, 1385 H, 94 ERA+ and people want to give him 4 years and 4x the overall money.

    Continue to disgaree, and spout off all you want, but if he If he gives you his pre TJS numbers of 185-200 IP and a 4.25-4.35 ERA he provides plenty of value.

  12. #51
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
    Posts
    3,994
    Like
    4
    Liked 124 Times in 90 Posts
    Blog Entries
    67
    I hate the idea of the Twins signing Nolasco and have been CLEAR about that.

    Pelfrey is a waste of space. I would rather let Liam Hendriks try out again for 1/10 the cost and likely a similar value.

  13. #52
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
    Posts
    3,990
    Like
    104
    Liked 386 Times in 201 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    I hate the idea of the Twins signing Nolasco and have been CLEAR about that.

    Pelfrey is a waste of space. I would rather let Liam Hendriks try out again for 1/10 the cost and likely a similar value.
    You realize he has a 6.06 ERA and 68 ERA+ in his 150+ IP in the majors right?

    You are just being silly now.

  14. #53
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
    Posts
    3,994
    Like
    4
    Liked 124 Times in 90 Posts
    Blog Entries
    67
    I am shocked by the amount of support for paying millions to replacement level pitchers. Even Arroyo is better than that, and he is OLD.

  15. #54
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
    Posts
    3,990
    Like
    104
    Liked 386 Times in 201 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    I am shocked by the amount of support for paying millions to replacement level pitchers. Even Arroyo is better than that, and he is OLD.
    Arroyo also costs 3x as much....

  16. #55
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
    Posts
    3,994
    Like
    4
    Liked 124 Times in 90 Posts
    Blog Entries
    67
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    You realize he has a 6.06 ERA and 68 ERA+ in his 150+ IP in the majors right?

    You are just being silly now.
    Hendriks is 5 years younger with no such health issues and a comparable K rate. Certainly a better k/bb rate without actually looking.

    Anyway, yes, I will go on the record as saying that I would prefer the Twins give the 5th starter role to Liam Hendriks at $500K than Mike Pelfrey at $4-5 million.

  17. #56
    I would be tickled pink if our rotation went:
    Garza
    Pelfrey
    Correia
    Deduno
    Gibson

    With meyer and may ready by midseason.
    Last edited by Marta Shearing; 11-27-2013 at 01:29 AM.

  18. #57
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
    Posts
    3,994
    Like
    4
    Liked 124 Times in 90 Posts
    Blog Entries
    67
    Quote Originally Posted by Marta Shearing View Post
    I would be tickled pink if our rotation went:
    Garza
    Pelfrey
    Correia
    Deduno
    Gibson
    I laugh at how you put Pelfrey above Correia and Deduno here. What?

    Anyway, one pitcher is not enough.

  19. #58
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    399
    Like
    0
    Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
    Blog Entries
    4
    I just puked in my mouth reading this. Sure Pelfrey as a #5 starter....but he is not going to be considered our #5 starter...he will be considered our #2....gross. C'MON MAN!

  20. #59
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    399
    Like
    0
    Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts
    Blog Entries
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    I laugh at how you put Pelfrey above Correia and Deduno here. What?

    Anyway, one pitcher is not enough.
    Totally agree. What's Garza's WAR? Like 3? That isnt going to cut it. Sure I would love Garza but we need more than one pitcher. If this offseason all they do is keep Pelfrey and sign Garza...it is a failure.

  21. #60
    I really wasnt putting them in any particular order. With Ryan in charge, I think Garza and Pelfrey is the best we can hope for, and I dont think he'll do that much.

Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
©2014 TwinsCentric, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Interested in advertising with Twins Daily? Click here.