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Thread: Twins plan shaping up

  1. #1
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Twins plan shaping up

    1. Consider about $20 million max to be spent, for some reason.
    2. Divide that up between starting pitching and position players, for some reason.
    3. From 1-2, players like Mike Pelfrey and Dioner Navarro seem like good gets, combining for up to half of the $20 million.
    4. From 1-3, one of those two won't sign, so we have money to throw towards Ricky Nolasco in such a scenario.
    5. From 1-4, maybe two of those first guys sign . . . then we still have money for Arroyo.
    6. Otherwise, we have Swarzak, Duensing, and newly acquired Kris Johnson to potentially fill 2/5 of the rotation.
    7. We could save some money by trading away great prospects for Homer Bailey. So there's that.
    8. Meanwhile, Eric Fryer and Chris Raul are good candidates at C and 4th OF, just in case.
    9. We had a very good 2013 bullpen so let's bank on it again and not protect A.J. Achter or Dakota Watts.
    10. Thus, from 1-9, it's all good.

  2. #2
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    And I will repent and eat it totally if I am wrong. I hope to be wrong.

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  4. #4
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Dave, if you have an actual argument against 1-10, let me know.

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    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    By the way, I think the Twins should offer:

    Garza: 4 years, $76 million plus $2.5 million in incentives for each year, depending on some combo of innings pitched at sub 4.00 ERA.

    Jimenez: 3 years, 45 million plus $2 million in incentives each year,depending on some combo of innings pitched at sub 4.20 ERA.

    Arroyo: 3 years, 27 million plus $1 million in incentives each year, depending on some combo of innings and a sub 4.40 ERA.

  6. #6
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    By the way, I think the Twins should offer:

    Garza: 4 years, $76 million plus $2.5 million in incentives for each year, depending on some combo of innings pitched at sub 4.00 ERA.

    Jimenez: 3 years, 45 million plus $2 million in incentives each year,depending on some combo of innings pitched at sub 4.20 ERA.

    Arroyo: 3 years, 27 million plus $1 million in incentives each year, depending on some combo of innings and a sub 4.40 ERA.
    Garza would turn that down in a heartbeat, you also can't build in incentives based on statistics such as ERA.

  7. #7
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Garza would turn that down in a heartbeat, you also can't build in incentives based on statistics such as ERA.
    Of course you can.

    Anyway is 4/76 worse then 5/85? He is not getting more than that, I don't think. Here he would have the opportunity to get to 4/86!

  8. #8
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    Of course you can.
    No, you really can't.

    http://www.thecubreporter.com/book/export/html/3511

    Performance-incentive bonuses are permitted in Major League contracts, but a bonus cannot be based on batting or pitching skill, or where the club finishes in the standings. A performance-incentive bonus can, however, be tied to days spent on an MLB Active List during the MLB regular season, and/or Games Played, Games Started, Games Finished, and/or Innings Pitched for pitchers, or Games Played, Games Started, and/or Plate Appearances for position players. Awards such as MVP, Cy Young, Silver Slugger, and/or Gold Glove, and/or being named to an All-Star team, can also be tied to an incentive bonus.

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    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    No, you really can't.

    http://www.thecubreporter.com/book/export/html/3511

    Performance-incentive bonuses are permitted in Major League contracts, but a bonus cannot be based on batting or pitching skill, or where the club finishes in the standings. A performance-incentive bonus can, however, be tied to days spent on an MLB Active List during the MLB regular season, and/or Games Played, Games Started, Games Finished, and/or Innings Pitched for pitchers, or Games Played, Games Started, and/or Plate Appearances for position players. Awards such as MVP, Cy Young, Silver Slugger, and/or Gold Glove, and/or being named to an All-Star team, can also be tied to an incentive bonus.
    Whoa. I really did not know that. What a weird thing.

    Keep it strictly to IP then.

    But thanks for that information. I have never seen that before and had no idea.

  10. #10
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Anyway, I really want assertions, claims with support, and/or full-fledged arguments against 1-10 above.

  11. #11
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Sure, why not, I don't have anything to do tomorrow except fight the masses at the train station and trek over to the gf's folks house for thanksgiving.

    1. Consider about $20 million max to be spent, for some reason.
    Why? Where has this $20 million been hinted to, discussed? The Twins have been linked to numerous players who have significant contract demands.
    2. Divide that up between starting pitching and position players, for some reason.
    Why? What reason? They have been linked to significantly more players than position players (just a few catchers)
    3. From 1-2, players like Mike Pelfrey and Dioner Navarro seem like good gets, combining for up to half of the $20 million.
    Sarcasm, I get it.
    4. From 1-3, one of those two won't sign, so we have money to throw towards Ricky Nolasco in such a scenario.
    Or Garza, or Ubaldo, or Santana potentially, or Kazmir.
    5. From 1-4, maybe two of those first guys sign . . . then we still have money for Arroyo.
    What exactly are you stating at this point?

    6. Otherwise, we have Swarzak, Duensing, and newly acquired Kris Johnson to potentially fill 2/5 of the rotation.
    Doubtful. Perhaps you shouldn't react so much to a random report. The Twins still have DeDuno, Correia, Gibson, Diamond, Albers, Hendriks and maybe even Worley who will prob be ahead of them in the potential internal SP "battle" Not to mention the Free agents this highly likely will sign.
    7. We could save some money by trading away great prospects for Homer Bailey. So there's that.
    It's not about saving money, its about bringing in a superior pitcher and signing him long term.
    8. Meanwhile, Eric Fryer and Chris Raul are good candidates at C and 4th OF, just in case.
    Who on earth is Chris Raul? Again with the sarcasm, Fryer is nothing more than org depth at this point, people are over-reacting about him being on the 40 man roster. Once they sign a ML catcher he most likely is gone anyways.
    9. We had a very good 2013 bullpen so let's bank on it again and not protect A.J. Achter or Dakota Watts.
    You can't protect every single player from the rule 5 draft, and its highly, highly, highly unlikely either of those two will get picked. I mean you are talking about two older prospects who aren't even in the top 40 in the whole org.
    10. Thus, from 1-9, it's all good.
    What?

  12. This user likes SpiritofVodkaDave's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    jay (11-27-2013)

  13. #12
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    I'm beginning to share Shane's distrust of this offseason, but it's still early, so I have not given up hope.
    Lighten up Francis....

  14. #13
    Man, it's not even Thanksgiving. Let's wait to freak out until there is something to react to?

  15. #14
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    The Twins plans aren't 'shaping up.' There's only rumor and conjecture at this point. There seems to be a race among some to complain most quickly and loudly about the impending failures of the off season. How many threads do we need like this? Merge.

  16. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    The Twins plans aren't 'shaping up.' There's only rumor and conjecture at this point. There seems to be a race among some to complain most quickly and loudly about the impending failures of the off season. How many threads do we need like this? Merge.
    I would argue we need MANY, MANY MORE until Terry Ryan and the Twin's brass actually start listening to their audience/clients (the fans). The state buys a stadium to support the team and we haven't been spending money. That is a legitimate reason to be frustrated.

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    mike wants wins (11-27-2013)

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    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smcginnity View Post
    I would argue we need MANY, MANY MORE until Terry Ryan and the Twin's brass actually start listening to their audience/clients (the fans). The state buys a stadium to support the team and we haven't been spending money. That is a legitimate reason to be frustrated.
    I'll pop in to say that, as a forum admin, I can assure everyone that we do not need many, many more of these threads. I'll leave this one in place (for now) but if people continue to create duplicate threads just to complain about the same topics over and over again, we will start merging and issuing infractions.

  19. This user likes Brock Beauchamp's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    PseudoSABR (11-27-2013)

  20. #17
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    Can't we at least wait until winter meetings have concluded before people start complaining? That's when the dominos start to fall, and the Tanaka situation is also going to complicate things from a Twins standpoint, as they need pitching, and a lot of pitchers are going to wait until that is figured out.

  21. #18
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Twins Twerp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    I'll pop in to say that, as a forum admin, I can assure everyone that we do not need many, many more of these threads. I'll leave this one in place (for now) but if people continue to create duplicate threads just to complain about the same topics over and over again, we will start merging and issuing infractions.
    I agree. But I believe we should just ridicule people for these constant creation of threads instead of deleting them. Our Forefathers would want it this way. ('Murica)

  22. #19
    Shane, where are you at for Thanksgiving? Let's get together and complain about TR and do shots of vodka 'til the cows come home.

  23. #20
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer jay's Avatar
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    I put up a first blog post on this whole timing issue. Check it out for some rational data.

    Shane, I can usually agree with most of your posts. Lately, you've been filled with vitriol and doubt. Have you shared your offseason plan yet? I'd love to see it (no snark here).

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