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Thread: Twins Sign Ricky Nolasco?

  1. #81
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Swanson View Post
    4 years, 48 mil, 1 mil buyout in 2018 with some sort of vesting option. Very reasonable.
    Yup, really nice to see them throw that kind of money around.

  2. #82
    Today is a day to celebrate! Not only did the Twins not go dumpster diving for once, they went out and got someone who was coveted. They set a record today for spending on an external FA no matter what the contract comes out as.

    Ricky Nolasco may have not been the first choice of everyone. He wasn't my first choice (Garza is/was). However, he was up there. He was in the top 5 ... he wasn't even the 5th ... more like 3rd (I'm a Hughes apologist). Even though he wasn't the top name, he is by far the BEST pitcher the Twins have signed as an external FA since what ... Jack Morris?

    The Twins did something today nobody ever thought they had it in them to do. They spent money. Maybe they had to pull it from TR's cold dead hand, but they did it. Kudos to Jim Pohlad for doing something that might make Carl turn over in his grave. Kudos to the organization for realizing the same formula won't cut it anymore.

    There are questions about Nolasco. He's an NL pitcher. He's on the wrong side of 30. He clearly had a very good season in his walk FA year and you wonder if he's going to start regressing now that he has a major contract set. Those are all good concerns. However...

    He's durable. He isn't a K master, but he's better than what we have. He's proven. He's a name other teams wanted. Most of all ... he's HOPE!

    Another poster suggested Garza will get the Twins into a bidding war and they don't do those kind of things. Do you not think the Twins got into a bidding war for Nolasco? I think they for sure had to out-bid other teams in money, years, or both to get him. Why would Nolasco sign this early if the Twins didn't out-bid other teams right off the bat? Nolasco could have waited for Garza to sign and then really made a team over-spend maybe even more than the Twins had to here. Make no mistake other teams WERE in on Nolasco and the Twins needed to win the auction in order to get him to sign before Thanksgiving.

    We're in new territory today. Like many, I agree we need to do more. We need one more pitcher. I'd love Garza as anyone else would. I'd even as close to as ecstatic if we got Hughes. However, being a Twins fans, I'm used to not expecting much. Most likely, Nolasco is our ace next year. I am convinced we WILL get another SP, but it'll likely be Arroyo, which honestly isn't that bad when you think about it. He's under Garza, Hughes, Kazmir, and maybe even E. Santana. However, he's better than Pelfrey, Capuano, and others like that IMO.

    If we walk away with Nolasco, Arroyo, and Salty/AJ as our haul this year, it will be the most exciting offseason in Twins history bar none ... even more exciting than when we got Thome (who still had a lot to offer), O-Dog (who was a proven 2b and we got him when we knew we were close), Pavano (re-signed), and traded for Hardy.

    We need hope. We need something to make us care. Nolasco represents both of those. He probably has no idea what his signing means to the fans of the team. I hope he understands. Had he re-upped with the Dodgers or went to a team like the Red Sox or Yankees, it would be a ho hum signing for those fan bases. For us, it's a whole other level!

    We should thank Ricky Nolasco for signing here. We should thank him for saying he'd play here after 3 losing seasons. We should thank him for being living/breathing proof the team figured out how to spend money on a proven big time player for once (big time enough by our standards).

    The Twins now have joined the other 3 teams in town for at least TRYING to win (not saying the other 3 teams are successful, but nobody can accuse them of not spending money to try and win). Welcome to the party, Twins. Never thought I'd see you here in my lifetime.

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  4. #83
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    Like many others, I am happy with what this signing means more so than I am with Nolasco himself. On a championship caliber team, which is what I expect the Twins to strive to achieve every season, he is a #4 starter. That said, it is a nice upgrade to our rotation.

    If the Twins acquire another pitcher it should be someone with #1 or #2 starter upside. The Twins have several candidates that could be back of the rotation filler at this point so it makes little sense to bring in an aging vet to fill out the rotation unless he also brings exceptional stuff to the table as well.

  5. #84
    Head Moderator All-Star glunn's Avatar
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    This thread is an example of what makes TD great. Lots of good ideas and friendly, respectful discussion.

    I am especially impressed by some of the posts by Rookies. Keep it up guys. New voices and different perspectives are always appreciated, so long as you are respectful to those who may disagree.

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  7. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Morris View Post
    Sorry, but I find this unrealistic and very shortsighted. There are few good options available for one year contracts at this time-especially in positions of need (which I'll go ahead and define in this post as SP and SS-whereas C and 2B are unsettled and could use upgrades, and COF has questions beyond 2014). I'll go ahead and say that if you're looking for "superior to Nolasco", there are no players available on 1 year deals for 2014.

    Which means that any signing will limit flexibility in signings for future years. Looking at the 2014 offseason (When the Twins have ~17m coming off the books between Correia, Doumit and Willingham, a young and minimum salaried core already in/shortly joining the bigs and the need to sell tickets without the ASG as an incentive), the following players are available (as of now. Any players with options have been redacted):

    SP: Claytons Kershaw and Richard, Lester, Shields, Peavy, Scherzer, Bailey, Beckett, Josh Johnson
    SS: Hardy, Asdrubal, Lowrie, HanRam
    3B (if Sano can't cut it?): Sandoval
    OF: Cuddyer, Torii, Aoki, Hammer, Rasmus
    C: Russ Martin

    I'm not stating the Twins would, or should, pursue any specific name on that list. I'm not saying that money not spent this year will increase the budget for 2015 and on. I am saying money not committed to 2015+ this year will be available for that purpose next year.

    I'd much rather pursue Kershaw at the ridiculous sum he expects, or Bailey/Scherzer/Shields/Lester tier at 115/5 than Garza at the minimum 80/4 I expect him to get. I'd rather see the Twins be aggressive at getting one of the SS candidates and pick up a Peavy/Beckett type in addition than pay Garza that minimum 80/4.

    And if you'll tell me that with the Payroll Ceiling and TV Money and absolutely accurate Forbes/Bloomberg numbers, the Twins can afford to sign Garza and one of these guys, I'll preemptively reply that while that's true, not signing Garza would allow for a premium arm and bat next season-when the contention window has clarified and team needs have become more evident.

    The Twins made a nice splash with Nolasco (and finally quieted the "it can't happen because it hasn't happened yet" crowd when it comes to TR's spending), but with the number of teams looking for top of the rotation help this offseason and only Garza left fitting that category-I'd prefer not to hamstring the future free agency efforts by paying Garza whatever exorbitant sum he'll require. Even if it means 5 extra losses this season.
    There were pitchers better than Nolasco available this offseason on short term deals. Josh Johnson, Dan Haren, Tim Hudson have all signed already. That's a minor nitpick though.

    2014's FA SP class looked much better before Adam Wainwright, RA Dickey, Jake Peavy and Matt Harrison signed extensions. It also looked better before Josh Johnson fell apart and Lincecum had another down year.

    Off the top of my head I know that Cole Hamels and Matt Cain both signed extensions before becoming FA's in 2013.

    Just because next year looks good now doesn't mean it will when it's actually time to start signing pitchers. Many people made the argument that there was no need to sign Greinke or Sanchez last off season because there was always 2014. Well here we are and now there isn't anyone in their class available.

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  9. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxtung View Post
    Like many others, I am happy with what this signing means more so than I am with Nolasco himself. On a championship caliber team, which is what I expect the Twins to strive to achieve every season, he is a #4 starter. That said, it is a nice upgrade to our rotation.

    If the Twins acquire another pitcher it should be someone with #1 or #2 starter upside. The Twins have several candidates that could be back of the rotation filler at this point so it makes little sense to bring in an aging vet to fill out the rotation unless he also brings exceptional stuff to the table as well.
    Nolasco is a solid #3 on any team not named the Dodgers and Tanaka and Garza would have a hard time squeezing into the #2 for a championship caliber team.

  10. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by howieramone View Post
    Nolasco is a solid #3 on any team not named the Dodgers and Tanaka and Garza would have a hard time squeezing into the #2 for a championship caliber team.
    He wouldn't even crack the playoff rotations for the Tigers, Cardinals or Rays. He would be the number 4 starter for the Red Sox and Dodgers. It's questionable if he'd be a starter for the A's or Rangers as in the playoffs last season.

    To be a championship caliber team in 2014 you need to have 3 pitchers who fit that "#1 or #2 starter" description. Then you're fourth starter can be a 3/4.

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  12. #88
    Senior Member All-Star Hosken Bombo Disco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Morris View Post
    Sorry, but I find this unrealistic and very shortsighted. There are few good options available for one year contracts at this time-especially in positions of need (which I'll go ahead and define in this post as SP and SS-whereas C and 2B are unsettled and could use upgrades, and COF has questions beyond 2014). I'll go ahead and say that if you're looking for "superior to Nolasco", there are no players available on 1 year deals for 2014.

    Which means that any signing will limit flexibility in signings for future years. Looking at the 2014 offseason (When the Twins have ~17m coming off the books between Correia, Doumit and Willingham, a young and minimum salaried core already in/shortly joining the bigs and the need to sell tickets without the ASG as an incentive), the following players are available (as of now. Any players with options have been redacted):

    SP: Claytons Kershaw and Richard, Lester, Shields, Peavy, Scherzer, Bailey, Beckett, Josh Johnson
    SS: Hardy, Asdrubal, Lowrie, HanRam
    3B (if Sano can't cut it?): Sandoval
    OF: Cuddyer, Torii, Aoki, Hammer, Rasmus
    C: Russ Martin

    I'm not stating the Twins would, or should, pursue any specific name on that list. I'm not saying that money not spent this year will increase the budget for 2015 and on. I am saying money not committed to 2015+ this year will be available for that purpose next year.

    I'd much rather pursue Kershaw at the ridiculous sum he expects, or Bailey/Scherzer/Shields/Lester tier at 115/5 than Garza at the minimum 80/4 I expect him to get. I'd rather see the Twins be aggressive at getting one of the SS candidates and pick up a Peavy/Beckett type in addition than pay Garza that minimum 80/4.

    And if you'll tell me that with the Payroll Ceiling and TV Money and absolutely accurate Forbes/Bloomberg numbers, the Twins can afford to sign Garza and one of these guys, I'll preemptively reply that while that's true, not signing Garza would allow for a premium arm and bat next season-when the contention window has clarified and team needs have become more evident.

    The Twins made a nice splash with Nolasco (and finally quieted the "it can't happen because it hasn't happened yet" crowd when it comes to TR's spending), but with the number of teams looking for top of the rotation help this offseason and only Garza left fitting that category-I'd prefer not to hamstring the future free agency efforts by paying Garza whatever exorbitant sum he'll require. Even if it means 5 extra losses this season.
    Good job digging up that 2014 free agent list. Will be interesting to see which SP sign extensions and who tests the market after next year. I'm also on board with your idea why Ryan should not pursue any other long term Garza type contracts this offseason (and definitely won't pursue Garza himself in my opinion-- now there's a guy who can shake up a clubhouse and maybe not in a healthy way).

    I'm not sure why you consider SS a position of need or what questions you have about center field beyond 2014 (which is Buxton's isn't it?) -- or maybe I read that 1st graf wrong. I am warming to the idea of signing a free agent catcher, however. Warming to it but not quite there. It would be ideal to see a younger guy win the job.

  13. #89
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    Just remember if we dont spend it , they put it in there pockets and dont return it to the team the following year,Also by putting a quality team on the field you regain some of that 700,000+ fans that stopped coming, basically every 100,000 fans equal about 5 million dollars.
    So if we can regain 600,000 ticket sales we will have an extra 15 million (1/2 of 30 million)
    to spend on payroll in 2015 ....

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  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hosken Bombo Disco View Post
    Good job digging up that 2014 free agent list. Will be interesting to see which SP sign extensions and who tests the market after next year. I'm also on board with your idea why Ryan should not pursue any other long term Garza type contracts this offseason (and definitely won't pursue Garza himself in my opinion-- now there's a guy who can shake up a clubhouse and maybe not in a healthy way).

    I'm not sure why you consider SS a position of need or what questions you have about center field beyond 2014 (which is Buxton's isn't it?) -- or maybe I read that 1st graf wrong. I am warming to the idea of signing a free agent catcher, however. Warming to it but not quite there. It would be ideal to see a younger guy win the job.
    I'm there. Diomer Navarro would fill the bill as the FA catcher quite nicely, and well within budget (without the long-term encumberance), while waiting to see how significantly and quickly that Pinto makes his own impact felt.

    I'm not on board with Half Measures, though. The poster you responded to re-stated the long-time fallacy that the Twins accumulate "rollover" money- while it's readily apparent that they do not do so-there's no such thing as saving up in 2013-14, for purposes of taking a shot at bigger names in 2015. The money is there, the commitment by Pohlad is there, this offseason, right now.

    Now that Nolasco is in the fold, why not double down....roll the dice.... doing whatever it takes in insuring the winning bid on Tanaka?.....makes a lot of sense compared to trying to compete for more known quantities, Kershaw, et al, one year later. At least 3/5ths of your rotation would be set up for the arrival of the next wave. If Meyer and Gibson come around and establish themselves in rounding out the rotation sometime during 2014, the Twins could actually be a fringe contender as early as this coming season and can realistically plan to hit the ground running as a full-blown contender in 2015.
    Last edited by jokin; 11-30-2013 at 12:29 AM.

  16. #91
    Senior Member Triple-A goulik's Avatar
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    It seems to me that some of the best (the garza's of the world) are not going to be interested if we don't show we are serious (Nolasco and a catcher for example, maybe another pitcher like Hughes, Pelfrey)

  17. #92
    Senior Member All-Star Hosken Bombo Disco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    I'm there. Diomer Navarro would fill the bill as the FA catcher quite nicely, and well within budget (without the long-term encumberance), while waiting to see how significantly and quickly that Pinto makes his own impact felt.

    I'm not on board with Half Measures, though. The poster you responded to re-stated the long-time fallacy that the Twins accumulate "rollover" money- while it's readily apparent that they do not do so-there's no such thing as saving up in 2013-14, for purposes of taking a shot at bigger names in 2015. The money is there, the commitment by Pohlad is there, this offseason, right now.

    Now that Nolasco is in the fold, why not double down....roll the dice.... doing whatever it takes in insuring the winning bid on Tanaka?.....makes a lot of sense compared to trying to compete for more known quantities, Kershaw, et al, one year later. At least 3/5ths of your rotation would be set up for the arrival of the next wave. If Meyer and Gibson come around and establish themselves in rounding out the rotation sometime during 2014, the Twins could actually be a fringe contender as early as this coming season and can realistically plan to hit the ground running as a full-blown contender in 2015.
    Jokin, I'm not ready to double down this year. Tanaka's probably not gonna happen (not TR's style) and I wouldn't want it to. The Twins in my opinion have much deeper worries than what a couple good free agent pitchers will fix. They need to get their young pitchers going, then groom Sano and Buxton for their call ups. Player development will still be the main focus for 2014. There's no reason Buxton or Sano can't then excel in their first full seasons like the Trouts and the Goldschmidts. Maybe Hicks moves to right. Florimon and Dozier build on 2013. And on a separate note. I know you agree but I will remind you of one more thing. September rolls around and it's quittin' time. For a 27-58 record in September the last three years. Not questioning anyone's individual efforts, just pointing it out. Nobody can or will identify why this happens, but it happens. So that needs to get fixed also.

    So anyway, even in the wild-card era, it's expecting a lot to go from 96 losses to playoff contention in one season. So I'm on board for half-measures to get this team back to .500 and finishing strong. Nolasco + Kazmir or Hughes + maybe a catcher would be a good offseason, develop your prospects, figure out a batting order, then go all in for 2015.

  18. #93
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JP3700 View Post
    You might not want to tell him that he also requested Eric Fryer to be his personal catcher.

    *ducks*

    I know I'm a little late to the party, but this was fantastic.
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ball… and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
    - Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's

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