Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 51

Thread: Heyman: Twins have 4 starting pitchers on their list

  1. #1
    Owner Big-Leaguer Parker Hageman's Avatar
    Posts
    996
    Like
    1
    Liked 38 Times in 25 Posts
    Blog Entries
    201

    Heyman: Twins have 4 starting pitchers on their list

    According to a Jon Heyman tweet this morning, the Twins have four free agent starting pitchers they are looking at: Matt Garza, Bronson Arroyo, Mike Pelfrey and (new entrant) Bartolo Colon.

    We have been away of the Garza, Arroyo and Pelfrey interest for a while.

    Nick Nelson
    wrote today about Arroyo, speculating the organization's need to replace the Carl Pavano void. I analyzed why the Twins may still be interested in Mike Pelfrey despite the poor overall numbers. Undoubtedly, at some point here, you will read a TwinsDaily.com take on the possibility of signing Garza.

    The Colon interest is new. From the GM Handbook, here was my take on Colon's performance:

    Who…what…how…why? Talk about a pitcher who has redefined himself after losing his elite stuff. In the twilight of his career, Colon has figured out how to work with an 89-mph fastball and keep opponents from teeing off on him. Is there an element of luck involved? Probably. His 80% left-on-base rate is well above his career norm and his home run rate is likely suppressed thanks to the O.co Coliseum. Nevertheless, he’s done well two years in a row. He works ahead of hitters and then gets them to hit his pitch, sort of the model of what Rick Anderson wants his staff to do.
    So that's Colon in a nutshell. We also speculated that he would land a one-year, $12M deal.

    When I tweeted the Heyman report out this morning, largely the response was people preferred Colon to Pelfrey. Overall, would you want Colon out of those four?
    @OverTheBaggy

  2. This user likes Parker Hageman's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    glunn (12-11-2013)

  3. #2
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
    Posts
    3,786
    Like
    4
    Liked 67 Times in 50 Posts
    Blog Entries
    63
    Colon has to want a contender. He would be nice no that one-year deal and then be trade bait at the deadline (with Correia).

  4. #3
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    3,168
    Like
    19
    Liked 197 Times in 125 Posts
    After Garza, it's tough to rank these guys. The Twins offered Pelfery 2 years but he clearly either wants more years or money. Colon on a one year deal would be boring but acceptable, but the trouble is he wants two years. I don't trust Arroyo to be productive much longer but two years isn't a huge risk. The problem here is that reports say he will be getting three years from whomever signs him.

    I'd be OK with these pitchers under these circumstances:

    Garza: 4-5 years at fairly ugly money but not as ugly as it may have looked at the outset
    Pelfrey: 2 years at cheap money with an eye on moving him this time next year
    Colon: 1 year and move him at the deadline if the Twins are not competitive
    Arroyo: 2 years and hold your nose at the likely unmovable $13 million he will cost in 2015

    Strangely, only the Garza scenario seems likely at this point. I really don't want the Twins to give extra years to guys who don't look to have extra years left in the tank.
    Last edited by nicksaviking; 12-11-2013 at 10:42 AM.

  5. These 3 users like nicksaviking's post and want to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    glunn (12-11-2013), gunnarthor (12-11-2013), johnnydakota (12-11-2013)

  6. #4
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
    Posts
    1,909
    Like
    433
    Liked 358 Times in 203 Posts
    Didn't know where else to add this so I'll post it here:


    • Jayson Stark ‏@jaysonst 38m
      Teams that have checked in on Matt Garza are being told he could sign in next 24-48 hours. Lots of #Diamondbacks buzz today.
      Retweeted by Buster Olney





      8:02 AM - 11 Dec 13 ·

      Does this mean that the Tanaka posting decision is likely to be announced in the next day or two now that mlb has approved the system?

      Has Team Garza just decided not to worry about the Tanaka situation (which looks like it may drag on). Some pressure to just get a deal done?








  7. #5
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
    Posts
    502
    Like
    9
    Liked 15 Times in 13 Posts
    Blog Entries
    8
    Seeing the 4 pitchers on the list makes signing Pelfry a disappointment as I have him ranked as the 4th best starter in the group.

  8. This user likes Brandon's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    glunn (12-11-2013)

  9. #6
    Would just love to see them go all in on garza and call it an offseason.

  10. #7
    Senior Member All-Star Winston Smith's Avatar
    Posts
    1,100
    Like
    44
    Liked 137 Times in 74 Posts
    My guess Garza gets 4 yrs $60m with a 5th yr option and a $5m buyout. I think he'd be worth that $65 min and $75 max. His numbers don't equal more than that do they?
    This comment brought to you from the Rosedale Mall studio by Hamm's Beer, brewed in the land of sky blue waters.

  11. These 2 users like Winston Smith's post and want to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    glunn (12-11-2013), johnnydakota (12-11-2013)

  12. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
    Seeing the 4 pitchers on the list makes signing Pelfry a disappointment as I have him ranked as the 4th best starter in the group.
    Same. I'll take all the above before Pelfrey, if for no other reason than to not have to wait 2 days between each pitch.

    In the longterm, Colon really wouldn't make much difference unless we flipped him at the deadline for something, so I suppose if they want to spend the money and have next year be less awful then go for it. But I guess I'm pretty neutral about it.
    Once held a .900 OBP in Church League Softball.

  13. This user likes Briley's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    glunn (12-11-2013)

  14. #9
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer mikeee's Avatar
    Posts
    702
    Like
    6
    Liked 9 Times in 9 Posts
    It sure is fun to follow all this! I find myself hitting the reload button a lot in my browser for the
    latest news!

  15. This user likes mikeee's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    glunn (12-11-2013)

  16. #10
    So, is it out of the realm of possibility that the Twins go out and sign Garza and Arroyo and then trade Correia and Gibson for a big time bat (outfielder/shortstop/catcher/DH)?

  17. This user likes Smcginnity's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    glunn (12-11-2013)

  18. #11
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    3,168
    Like
    19
    Liked 197 Times in 125 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    My guess Garza gets 4 yrs $60m with a 5th yr option and a $5m buyout. I think he'd be worth that $65 min and $75 max. His numbers don't equal more than that do they?
    They probably don't but Nolasco and Hughes' numbers don't really equal what they got either. I'm really curious to find out what Garza gets, it wasn't long ago people assumed he would get Anibal Sanchez money. Now your figures seem more in line and I'd definately rather have Garza on that deal than Nolasco on his.

  19. This user likes nicksaviking's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    glunn (12-11-2013)

  20. #12
    Super Moderator All-Star
    Posts
    3,419
    Like
    167
    Liked 309 Times in 184 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    If they seriously want more pitching, it doesn't say much for their confidence in Gibson, Worley, Deduno, or Diamond. I would think Gibson and Worley should be first in line for another try, but adding more pitchers will make it difficult.

  21. This user likes diehardtwinsfan's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    glunn (12-11-2013)

  22. #13
    Junior Member Rookie
    Posts
    18
    Like
    0
    Liked 10 Times in 3 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Definitely looks like we are exhausting possibilities for a poor-man's ace/#2 before settling for Pelfrey, which is good. I can't believe it now looks like 3/$36 for Arroyo, according to latest reports, but Berardino also says the Twins view him in front of Nolasco in the rotation, so I suppose that fits. Garza at 4/$64, Arroyo at 3/$36 or Colon at 2/$24. Wow.

    My guess is that unless Arizona can swing a trade for Price of Samardzija in the next 48 hrs., they will take Garza off the board. Likewise, I think Arroyo is using us to extract year 3 from the Reds, and he will ultimately sign there. And again, Colon wants to stay in Oakland, just waiting for the second year. I would take any of those three, in that order and at those lofty prices, before settling for Pelfrey, which unfortunately is the likeliest scenario.

  23. This user likes twinsajsf's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    glunn (12-11-2013)

  24. #14
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    6,696
    Like
    32
    Liked 776 Times in 426 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    My guess Garza gets 4 yrs $60m with a 5th yr option and a $5m buyout. I think he'd be worth that $65 min and $75 max. His numbers don't equal more than that do they?
    I think they do.

    If you can get Matt Garza for four years and $60m, you make that deal all day and twice on Sundays.

  25. These 2 users like Brock Beauchamp's post and want to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    glunn (12-11-2013), johnnydakota (12-11-2013)

  26. #15
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    4,609
    Like
    512
    Liked 214 Times in 147 Posts
    If they could land Garza or Tanaka, I'd be curious what their thought process is on spending all this money, only to have your OF be Wilingham, random AAAA player, Arcia and your DH be Doumit. There is no good reason to sign a SP to a 1-2 year deal, if you are not going to fix the offense also, unless your plan is to flip him.......
    Lighten up Francis....

  27. This user likes mike wants wins's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    glunn (12-11-2013)

  28. #16
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    2,171
    Like
    98
    Liked 54 Times in 38 Posts
    Obviously Garza is the best of the group but I don't want to give him Sanchez money. Frankly, I think I'd rather not sign a big contract now and see if next year (Bailey, Lester, Scherzer, Masterson) is a better time to do that. A year from now, we should have a better idea of Meyer, Gibson and May as future parts of the rotation. I like Hughes more than most. And Worley has to get another chance yet.

    I think I'd prefer a short deal this year and hope for the bigger deal next year to fit in with the Buxton/Sano nucleus.

  29. This user likes gunnarthor's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    glunn (12-11-2013)

  30. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    If they seriously want more pitching, it doesn't say much for their confidence in Gibson, Worley, Deduno, or Diamond. I would think Gibson and Worley should be first in line for another try, but adding more pitchers will make it difficult.
    Love the idea of adding Garza for 4 years with option if it's under 75 million total. Colon is a great get on 1 year deal regardless of his 2014 performance. Arroyo is a nice move as long as it's 2 years. I really dislike the idea of bringing back Pelfrey, but would live with a 1 year deal, 2 year deal for him really makes me question the upside of giving him 2 years.

    Adding one more SP really doesn't have much effect on this year's promising pitchers. If we have 4 set starters going into the year that is great. Gibson and Meyer both have things they can work on in AAA. Once they start dominating and we have no open rotation spots for them, that is a GREAT problem to have.

    Now as for the other 3, that are all out of options. Here's my 25 cents.
    #1 Worley- I think he is the one we should be wanting to keep the most. Probably has the best consistent stuff, when healthy. I think he should have the best shot at winning and KEEPING the 5th spot in the rotation. I believe the comments that he was out of shape and not healthy last year. Could be long man in pen if loses out to other guys for starting spot. This guy is young and controllable. Don't give up on him.

    #2 Deduno- I like this guy, I really do. Electric stuff in comparison to other starters. He can't go to the pen. I think the Twins can find a way to buy more time for Worley by DL'ing Deduno to start the year. He had fairly serious surgery over the Winter, so it wouldn't raise any eyebrows. Heck, he might not even be ready by Opening Day regardless. If that happens, it probably buys Worley a month of starts to prove he is healthy and capable. If Worley fails, Deduno comes off DL to take his spot. If Deduno can't do it, hopefully Meyer or Gibson is ready in AAA (this would likely be June or July in the timeline.)

    #3 Diamond- I don't think the Twins really are too worried about what happens with him. Should they be? I don't think so either. If he makes the bullpen, fine, if he doesn't win #5 spot, adios or Rochester, if he accepts. If Diamond wins the 5 spot, it means we have either given up on both the others or they have been DL'ed. If they were both on the DL to start the year, things would get quite tricky. Either way, I don't like Diamond to win rotation spot, more likely gone or bullpen IMO.

  31. This user likes twinscowboysbulls's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    glunn (12-11-2013)

  32. #18
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,148
    Like
    62
    Liked 74 Times in 50 Posts
    I hope the priority is: 1) Garza 2) Garza 3) wait for next year and target someone better than Garza and pay the price for him!

  33. These 3 users like Kwak's post and want to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    AHSaves (12-11-2013), glunn (12-11-2013), johnnydakota (12-11-2013)

  34. #19
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Joe A. Preusser's Avatar
    Posts
    641
    Like
    79
    Liked 111 Times in 67 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    If they could land Garza or Tanaka, I'd be curious what their thought process is on spending all this money, only to have your OF be Wilingham, random AAAA player, Arcia and your DH be Doumit. There is no good reason to sign a SP to a 1-2 year deal, if you are not going to fix the offense also, unless your plan is to flip him.......
    By next year (2015) our outfield will likely consist of Buxton, Hicks, and Arcia/Pouffe/Parm/etc. We're spending "all this money" on contracts that run several years past that point. I agree adding an additional 1-2 year contract seems a poor choice, unless you want to establish a rapport with that player and extend him if/when he succeeds.

  35. This user likes Joe A. Preusser's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    glunn (12-11-2013)

  36. #20
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Joe A. Preusser's Avatar
    Posts
    641
    Like
    79
    Liked 111 Times in 67 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by twinscowboysbulls View Post
    Love the idea of adding Garza for 4 years with option if it's under 75 million total. Colon is a great get on 1 year deal regardless of his 2014 performance. Arroyo is a nice move as long as it's 2 years. I really dislike the idea of bringing back Pelfrey, but would live with a 1 year deal, 2 year deal for him really makes me question the upside of giving him 2 years.

    Adding one more SP really doesn't have much effect on this year's promising pitchers. If we have 4 set starters going into the year that is great. Gibson and Meyer both have things they can work on in AAA. Once they start dominating and we have no open rotation spots for them, that is a GREAT problem to have.

    Now as for the other 3, that are all out of options. Here's my 25 cents.
    #1 Worley- I think he is the one we should be wanting to keep the most. Probably has the best consistent stuff, when healthy. I think he should have the best shot at winning and KEEPING the 5th spot in the rotation. I believe the comments that he was out of shape and not healthy last year. Could be long man in pen if loses out to other guys for starting spot. This guy is young and controllable. Don't give up on him.

    #2 Deduno- I like this guy, I really do. Electric stuff in comparison to other starters. He can't go to the pen. I think the Twins can find a way to buy more time for Worley by DL'ing Deduno to start the year. He had fairly serious surgery over the Winter, so it wouldn't raise any eyebrows. Heck, he might not even be ready by Opening Day regardless. If that happens, it probably buys Worley a month of starts to prove he is healthy and capable. If Worley fails, Deduno comes off DL to take his spot. If Deduno can't do it, hopefully Meyer or Gibson is ready in AAA (this would likely be June or July in the timeline.)

    #3 Diamond- I don't think the Twins really are too worried about what happens with him. Should they be? I don't think so either. If he makes the bullpen, fine, if he doesn't win #5 spot, adios or Rochester, if he accepts. If Diamond wins the 5 spot, it means we have either given up on both the others or they have been DL'ed. If they were both on the DL to start the year, things would get quite tricky. Either way, I don't like Diamond to win rotation spot, more likely gone or bullpen IMO.
    I liked Diamond in the pen until I looked at his splits. As much as I enjoyed his nice 2012 I really think he's gone.

    I look at it this way. There is a lot to like about Worley and Deduno. But would you rather have Worley or Garza? Would you rather have Deduno or Garza?

    Nolasco
    Hughes
    Gibson
    Correia
    Garza

    Take it a step further to next year:

    Garza
    Nolasco
    Meyer
    Hughes
    Gibson

    That is a playoff caliber rotation and we can have assembled it in less than 2 offseasons.

    Author's note: I have been an active hater of Matt Garza for some time now, as evidenced by my avatar of him in a dress. If he can move past my disdain then I can as well.
    Last edited by Joe A. Preusser; 12-11-2013 at 12:42 PM. Reason: formatting

  37. This user likes Joe A. Preusser's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    glunn (12-11-2013)

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
©2014 TwinsCentric, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Interested in advertising with Twins Daily? Click here.