Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567 LastLast
Results 101 to 120 of 128

Thread: Article: Twins and Pelfrey Agree to Deal

  1. #101
    Junior Member Rookie
    Posts
    19
    Like
    0
    Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts
    If we are hoping for bounce backs or career years, motivation moves. And nothing motivates like money and competition. Pavano, Baker, Blackburn, Mays (injury) were never as good after signing multi-year deals as they were trying to earn one. I think this is why the Twins rarely sign pitchers long term and tend to cycle tons of mid-level prospects through the major league organization. We trust the competition factor to raise otherwise average or below average players up a level. Case in point: Little Nick Punto. Hand him a job and he'll hit .200. Try to get rid of him, and he'll put up a career year.

    We now have a rotation full of guys with little to pitch for unless we are in the playoff hunt. I still like the moves because we are acquiring talent i.e. trade-bait.

  2. #102
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    484
    Like
    31
    Liked 101 Times in 76 Posts
    Blog Entries
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbek View Post
    Looking at his starts in July and August, he was pretty solid. He tailed off in September (not surprising after quick TJ recovery). Re-evaluate his season in more detail, and you may see why they wanted him back.
    Time will tell I guess, but I believe he is not in our top 5 right now, and certainly won't be when we bring up Meyer in June. So we have $11M locked up in a guy that should not be in the rotation. But of course he will be in the rotation because of his salary.

    The money could have been better spent elsewhere, like Corey Hart for example. He could have been a good DH for us.

  3. #103
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    6,696
    Like
    32
    Liked 776 Times in 426 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by tobi0040 View Post
    Time will tell I guess, but I believe he is not in our top 5 right now, and certainly won't be when we bring up Meyer in June. So we have $11M locked up in a guy that should not be in the rotation. But of course he will be in the rotation because of his salary.

    The money could have been better spent elsewhere, like Corey Hart for example. He could have been a good DH for us.
    It doesn't make much sense to complain that the Twins are picking up too much mediocre pitching and then advocate the acquisition of a mediocre DH when the team is absolutely bursting at the seams with mediocre OF/DH types (Arcia, Willingham, Doumit, Plouffe, Parmelee, etc).

  4. This user likes Brock Beauchamp's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    thetank (12-16-2013)

  5. #104
    Senior Member MVP
    Posts
    5,146
    Like
    378
    Liked 339 Times in 225 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    It doesn't make much sense to complain that the Twins are picking up too much mediocre pitching and then advocate the acquisition of a mediocre DH when the team is absolutely bursting at the seams with mediocre OF/DH types (Arcia, Willingham, Doumit, Plouffe, Parmelee, etc).
    Hart OPS+/HRs/SLG
    2010 130/31/.525
    2011 133/26/.510
    2012 120/30/.507

    Hart hasn't been a DH for the Brewers, mostly 1B/RF. Great clubhouse guy, a lot of Thome at a younger age in him, he signed with the M's for $6M + $7M in potential incentive bonuses, surely he's a few shades above mediocre.

    Obviously, you make a great point and the stumbling block for making this one work, there is a huge backlog of guys that would have to have been moved, and timing of trades hasn't been one of Terry's strong suits in recent times. And Corey Hart's health is still in question, but that doesn't change the fact that the Twins do need another bat with some punch in the order- for heaven's sake, Brian Dozier is (somehow) the current top HR power guy in this lineup! They went into 2013 with obviously too much fingers-crossed Hope that AA rookies could lead off and guys with injury histories and up-and-down play could reliably sustain their 2012 production, they even ill-advisedly extended one of them, when it was clear that a trade or trades was the more prudent move.
    Last edited by jokin; 12-16-2013 at 04:05 PM.

  6. #105
    Banned Big-Leaguer
    Posts
    715
    Like
    82
    Liked 40 Times in 29 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post



    Obviously, you make a great point and the stumbling block for making this one work, there is a huge backlog of guys that would have to have been moved, and timing of trades hasn't been one of Terry's strong suits in recent times. And Corey Hart's health is still in question, but that doesn't change the fact that the Twins do need another bat with some punch in the order- for heaven's sake, Brian Dozier is (somehow) the current top HR power guy in this lineup! They went into 2013 with obviously too much fingers-crossed Hope that AA rookies could lead off and guys with injury histories and up-and-down play could reliably sustain their 2012 production, they even ill-advisedly extended one of them, when it was clear that a trade or trades was the more prudent move.
    Ryan's trades have been solid and timed well. Extending Doumit was a solid move for anyone not blessed with fan board hindsight.

  7. #106
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,141
    Like
    3
    Liked 179 Times in 106 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    While Pelfrey's surgery and recovery does seem like it logically impacted his 2013 performance, he has also posted multiple similar seasons with the Mets. They may just be part of the package with him. Hopefully he can still pull out another league average season.

  8. #107
    Senior Member MVP
    Posts
    5,146
    Like
    378
    Liked 339 Times in 225 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by howieramone View Post
    Ryan's trades have been solid and timed well. Extending Doumit was a solid move for anyone not blessed with fan board hindsight.
    Wha...? This is satire, right?...Right out of 1 Twins Way? And how "solid" are those well-timed trades he hasn't made? Given that you participate on this board, is your "fan board hindsight" better than everyone else's? I would remind you that there were many of us at the time of the extension that questioned why you would extend a 30+ poor defensive catcher on a rebuilding team....and look to trade those who had just had career years.
    Last edited by jokin; 12-16-2013 at 04:58 PM.

  9. #108
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    6,696
    Like
    32
    Liked 776 Times in 426 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Obviously, you make a great point and the stumbling block for making this one work, there is a huge backlog of guys that would have to have been moved, and timing of trades hasn't been one of Terry's strong suits in recent times. And Corey Hart's health is still in question, but that doesn't change the fact that the Twins do need another bat with some punch in the order- for heaven's sake, Brian Dozier is (somehow) the current top HR power guy in this lineup! They went into 2013 with obviously too much fingers-crossed Hope that AA rookies could lead off and guys with injury histories and up-and-down play could reliably sustain their 2012 production, they even ill-advisedly extended one of them, when it was clear that a trade or trades was the more prudent move.
    I agree that the offense needs help... Which is why I think pursuing Drew is a good idea, provided he can be had on a three year deal.

    The problem with the Twins' offense right now is that they're loaded with DH/OF types with more on the way. There just aren't many positions where one of two things don't happen:

    1. They load an already-full position with more warm bodies

    2. They buy into a position that ends up blocking a prospect within 12-18 months

    IMO, SS is the one position that doesn't run into one of the above problems.

  10. #109
    Senior Member MVP
    Posts
    5,146
    Like
    378
    Liked 339 Times in 225 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    I agree that the offense needs help... Which is why I think pursuing Drew is a good idea, provided he can be had on a three year deal.

    The problem with the Twins' offense right now is that they're loaded with DH/OF types with more on the way. There just aren't many positions where one of two things don't happen:

    1. They load an already-full position with more warm bodies

    2. They buy into a position that ends up blocking a prospect within 12-18 months

    IMO, SS is the one position that doesn't run into one of the above problems.

    I'm all in favor of adding Drew, with the proviso that health incentives are built into the contract. And adding 1 year deals or expiring contract trades at other positions that won't block prospects.

  11. #110
    Super Moderator All-Star
    Posts
    3,419
    Like
    167
    Liked 309 Times in 184 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Wha...? This is satire, right?...Right out of 1 Twins Way? And how "solid" are those well-timed trades he hasn't made? Given that you participate on this board, is your "fan board hindsight" better than everyone else's? I would remind you that there were many of us at the time of the extension that questioned why you would extend a 30+ poor defensive catcher on a rebuilding team....and look to trade those who had just had career years.
    I don't remember there being a ton of complaints when Doumit and his .800+ OPS was extended for 2 years at a cheap price. It wasn't a bad deal at all given the cost, production, and a complete lack of talent at C in the upper levels. But I'm sure some complained, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. The question I have to ask is what exactly do any of us know about the trades that weren't made? We can speculate on that all we want, but it's nothing but speculation. Not sure you or I have a right to judge the FO on that IMO.

  12. This user likes diehardtwinsfan's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    Riverbrian (12-16-2013)

  13. #111
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    213
    Like
    0
    Liked 33 Times in 25 Posts
    I hardly think Arcia can be considered mediocre just yet, he still has much promise, whether he delivers or not in the long run is of course problematical.

  14. #112
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    6,696
    Like
    32
    Liked 776 Times in 426 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by oldguy10 View Post
    I hardly think Arcia can be considered mediocre just yet, he still has much promise, whether he delivers or not in the long run is of course problematical.
    Arcia *should* be better than mediocre at some point in his career but in 2014, there's a good chance he'll be mediocre.

    Arcia and Wilingham are the only guys who have the potential to be above average in the OF/DH slots in 2014.

  15. #113
    Senior Member MVP
    Posts
    5,146
    Like
    378
    Liked 339 Times in 225 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    I don't remember there being a ton of complaints when Doumit and his .800+ OPS was extended for 2 years at a cheap price. It wasn't a bad deal at all given the cost, production, and a complete lack of talent at C in the upper levels. But I'm sure some complained, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. The question I have to ask is what exactly do any of us know about the trades that weren't made? We can speculate on that all we want, but it's nothing but speculation. Not sure you or I have a right to judge the FO on that IMO.
    If you don't remember, you were just looking at the wrong information. Again, Doumit was fine for his initial contract, he staunched the bleeding in the wake of 2011, but a clearly rebuilding club should have flipped a 30+ player not a part of the competitive future, during, or coming off of a decent year (they at least were in line for a Type B draft pick as compensation- I think 2012 was the last year for Type B comp). Speaking of that, there are pages after pages in Twins Daily and similar sites before TD on wondering why the Twins sell high so infrequently- this isn't secret decoder ring information, we as fans do have the right to question moves and whether or not the Twins are in "Rebuilding Plan A", "Pretty Darn Competitive Team Plan A", or "Rebuilding Plan B with Real MLB Starters", after both of the Plan A's were an unmitigated disaster, etc.

  16. #114
    Banned Big-Leaguer
    Posts
    715
    Like
    82
    Liked 40 Times in 29 Posts

    Hindsight

    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    If you don't remember, you were just looking at the wrong information. Again, Doumit was fine for his initial contract, he staunched the bleeding in the wake of 2011, but a clearly rebuilding club should have flipped a 30+ player not a part of the competitive future, during, or coming off of a decent year (they at least were in line for a Type B draft pick as compensation- I think 2012 was the last year for Type B comp). Speaking of that, there are pages after pages in Twins Daily and similar sites before TD on wondering why the Twins sell high so infrequently- this isn't secret decoder ring information, we as fans do have the right to question moves and whether or not the Twins are in "Rebuilding Plan A", "Pretty Darn Competitive Team Plan A", or "Rebuilding Plan B with Real MLB Starters", after both of the Plan A's were an unmitigated disaster, etc.
    When Doumit was extended in June of 2012, Ryan had been back for 7 months and few if any knew the Twins were entering into a full blown rebuild. IIRC John Bonnes wrote an article in August of 2013, which directly addressed the subject of the Twins rebuilding for the first time on this board. The article generated some fairly diverse views.


    Edit: John's article was called Judging a Rebuild dated 8-27-13
    Last edited by howieramone; 12-16-2013 at 07:55 PM.

  17. #115
    Banned All-Star
    Posts
    1,498
    Like
    419
    Liked 75 Times in 49 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by howieramone View Post
    When Doumit was extended in June of 2012, Ryan had been back for 7 months and few if any knew the Twins were entering into a full blown rebuild. IIRC John Bonnes wrote an article in August of 2013, which directly addressed the subject of the Twins rebuilding for the first time on this board. The article generated some fairly diverse views.
    Just because some one from this site hadnt wrote an article about rebuilding , doesnt mean most knew we were not in contention and some thing was up in letting free agents walk away,for picks, if that didnt mean we were rebuilding , not sure what does.Maybe you were confused ,because Terry didnt rebuild much Just 1 starter and 1 reliever were added during his rebuilding ....

  18. #116
    Senior Member MVP
    Posts
    5,146
    Like
    378
    Liked 339 Times in 225 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by howieramone View Post
    When Doumit was extended in June of 2012, Ryan had been back for 7 months and few if any knew the Twins were entering into a full blown rebuild. IIRC John Bonnes wrote an article in August of 2013, which directly addressed the subject of the Twins rebuilding for the first time on this board. The article generated some fairly diverse views.
    Bonnes first time addrssing the rebuild? UHhh...I. Don't. Think. So.

    Again, this may be hindsight to someone who was evidently buried in the catacombs at One Twins Way before he became a contributor at Twins Daily, but the general consensus on TD in the 2011-12 offseason was that the Twins were, in fact rebuilding, but were either, not in a good position PR wise to admit it, or, simply just very hesitant in acknowledging the fact that the whole new-stadium Plan A at Target Field had fully blown up in their faces in 2011.... in conclusion, it's fair to characterize the feeling as, TR keeping his cards close to his vest, throw a few waste-of-effort bones to the season ticket holders, do the quick and easier fix on the bullpen (he succeeded at that task) and emphasize the farm system a little more surreptitiously.
    Last edited by jokin; 12-17-2013 at 12:32 AM.

  19. #117
    Senior Member All-Star Badsmerf's Avatar
    Posts
    1,508
    Like
    12
    Liked 31 Times in 19 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Bonnes.... breaking new ground... pfff (just kidding Boones (not really, but kinda (I really am though in case I might be moderated))).
    Do or do not. There is no try.

  20. #118
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    484
    Like
    31
    Liked 101 Times in 76 Posts
    Blog Entries
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Hart OPS+/HRs/SLG
    2010 130/31/.525
    2011 133/26/.510
    2012 120/30/.507

    Hart hasn't been a DH for the Brewers, mostly 1B/RF. Great clubhouse guy, a lot of Thome at a younger age in him, he signed with the M's for $6M + $7M in potential incentive bonuses, surely he's a few shades above mediocre.

    Obviously, you make a great point and the stumbling block for making this one work, there is a huge backlog of guys that would have to have been moved, and timing of trades hasn't been one of Terry's strong suits in recent times. And Corey Hart's health is still in question, but that doesn't change the fact that the Twins do need another bat with some punch in the order- for heaven's sake, Brian Dozier is (somehow) the current top HR power guy in this lineup! They went into 2013 with obviously too much fingers-crossed Hope that AA rookies could lead off and guys with injury histories and up-and-down play could reliably sustain their 2012 production, they even ill-advisedly extended one of them, when it was clear that a trade or trades was the more prudent move.
    Thank you for posting Hart's numbers to put some context to my point. Corey Hart has been much better than our DH options (arcia and josh in rf and lf). Hart will stay healthy as the dh. I am done with parmalee and collabello. if Doumit is the backup lf, rf, dh, and allows us not to use a roster spot for a third catcher we will be in a good position.Further, it is certainly possible willingham or Hart if we would have signed him could be movemid-season. so I don't think we are as deep as we think. At some point we need to add offense and when you go around the Diamond we have holes at ss, c, and dh. The best bet for an upgrade is at DH. Clearly dozier and mauer are there. the corner outfields are ok and we are holding 3b and cf for certain top prospects

  21. #119
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    6,696
    Like
    32
    Liked 776 Times in 426 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by tobi0040 View Post
    Thank you for posting Hart's numbers to put some context to my point. Corey Hart has been much better than our DH options (arcia and josh in rf and lf). Hart will stay healthy as the dh. I am done with parmalee and collabello. if Doumit is the backup lf, rf, dh, and allows us not to use a roster spot for a third catcher we will be in a good position.Further, it is certainly possible willingham or Hart if we would have signed him could be movemid-season. so I don't think we are as deep as we think. At some point we need to add offense and when you go around the Diamond we have holes at ss, c, and dh. The best bet for an upgrade is at DH. Clearly dozier and mauer are there. the corner outfields are ok and we are holding 3b and cf for certain top prospects
    Except that you're ignoring how both Willingham and Arcia are butchers in the field.

    120 OPS+ DHs aren't terribly hard to find. For a DH, that's not a terribly good stat line, either. Decent, but not overwhelming.

    The Twins could make more gains by finding a corner OF who won't embarrass himself with the bat but can play a good OF... A Parmelee/Plouffe platoon might be a better player than Corey Hart once you factor in defense gained by Parmelee/Plouffe and defense "lost" by Willingham moving to DH.

    Or the team could go outside the organization. My point is that Corey Hart just pollutes an already-full DH position and forces some really bad players to stand in the OF, letting fly balls drop left and right. You can't look at Hart's pretty good OPS+ and ignore that he's making your defense considerably worse by pushing Willingham back into the field.

  22. #120
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    4,609
    Like
    512
    Liked 214 Times in 147 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by howieramone View Post
    Ryan's trades have been solid and timed well. Extending Doumit was a solid move for anyone not blessed with fan board hindsight.
    fangpraphs predicted doumit would be awful, with foresight. So did others.
    Lighten up Francis....

Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
©2014 TwinsCentric, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Interested in advertising with Twins Daily? Click here.