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Thread: Twins going too far this off-season?

  1. #21
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    They had to try. Still think they will lose 90 or more next year.

  2. #22
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    I am fine with the offseason so far. Would love a problem of needing to decide between good, performing pitchers. That hasn't happened for some time.

  3. #23
    Considering there are no big name free agents other than Garza left on the market that the Twins will go after that do not cost a 2nd round pick, it appears the Twins have left room to add a big FA next off-season if needed. Just like RocketPig suggested they should..hmm correlation? I think not. RP is TR/JR.

    Seriously though, if this rotation pans out and Correia is gone at the end of 2014 and we add in Meyer, that would be an upgrade in our rotation for 2015.

    If Hicks and Arcia figure it out a bit more this year. If Pinto shows he is good enough and we bring up Buxton and Sano late in the year and they show enough good signs that they can be the go to option out of ST in 2015 we should be set up fairly nice. If that is the case:

    Rotation:
    Set

    BP:
    Set

    Lineup:
    CF Buxton
    2B Dozier
    1B Mauer
    3B Sano
    DH Arcia
    C Pinto
    RF Hicks
    LF
    SS

    LF/SS would be the only holes although we would still have Florimon for SS and Rosario for LF if needed.

    I could see a nice little package of one of our SP- Hughes/Nolasco/Pelfrey + Rosario or Dozier + Perkins to grab a SP/SS/OF/C depending on who doesn't pan out this year. We might not need a SP back in the deal if May and Meyer both come on strong this year. Next year could be an interesting off-season. Then whatever we didn't fill in that trade we could sign the best available FA that would come here.

    C- Soto?
    SS- A. Cabrera?
    OF- Gardner? Hunter?
    SP- lots to choose from as of now.

  4. #24
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    I agree with the posters above that say the Twins are in no danger of "blocking" anybody, and if by good fortune we wind up with 6+ quality MLB starters, that will be a blessing, not a problem.

    That said, I still suspect the Twins didn't go far enough in the pitching department. They now have 4 healthy veterans in the rotation, which is an upgrade over the last two years for sure, but they all fit the same profile: alternating ERA+ seasons between 80 and 100, topping out at 6 IP/start and occasionally bottoming out near 5 IP/start. That's four guys waffling between #3 starter and #5 starter -- split the difference, and it probably averages out to four #4 starters.

    It will be interesting to see what Garza gets -- his performance downside has basically been #3 starter, the upside of the Twins' four guys. Otherwise he's been a very solid and consistent #2, I'd say, around 110 ERA+ and averaging over 6 IP/start.

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  6. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by spycake View Post
    I agree with the posters above that say the Twins are in no danger of "blocking" anybody, and if by good fortune we wind up with 6+ quality MLB starters, that will be a blessing, not a problem.

    That said, I still suspect the Twins didn't go far enough in the pitching department. They now have 4 healthy veterans in the rotation, which is an upgrade over the last two years for sure, but they all fit the same profile: alternating ERA+ seasons between 80 and 100, topping out at 6 IP/start and occasionally bottoming out near 5 IP/start. That's four guys waffling between #3 starter and #5 starter -- split the difference, and it probably averages out to four #4 starters.

    It will be interesting to see what Garza gets -- his performance downside has basically been #3 starter, the upside of the Twins' four guys. Otherwise he's been a very solid and consistent #2, I'd say, around 110 ERA+ and averaging over 6 IP/start.
    It's odd that he hasn't signed yet. He should sign somewhere before the Tanaka frenzy begins. If Tanaka gets posted, Garza gets less money IMO. It's risky, because if Tanaka doesn't get posted, Garza will get a considerable amount more.

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  8. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinscowboysbulls View Post
    It's odd that he hasn't signed yet. He should sign somewhere before the Tanaka frenzy begins. If Tanaka gets posted, Garza gets less money IMO. It's risky, because if Tanaka doesn't get posted, Garza will get a considerable amount more.
    In my opinion he gets more by waiting no matter what the outcome is for Tanaka, but in order to do that he needs to wait for the Tanaka scenario to play out. For whatever reason teams seem to be saving their money or targeting TanAka as their first choice. So even though they might be interested in Garza they are not ready to pony up their best offer yet as they want to see if they get Tanaka. Once Tanaka signs then whoever lost out will likely go hard after Garza as he will be the best option left. So I think waiting is in Garza's best interest right now.

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  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by howeda7 View Post
    And as for leaving no money for a bat, the current payroll is ~$83 million. Exactly the same as last year and $20-$25 million less than 2011. If we're out of money to spend, Jim Pohlad should be ashamed of himself.
    You misunderstand. It's not that they don't have any money to add a bat, it's that I think they are almost too focused on pitching. There's still a lot of time left this offseason but a lot of deals and trades have already happened.

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  12. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by kab21 View Post
    You misunderstand. It's not that they don't have any money to add a bat, it's that I think they are almost too focused on pitching. There's still a lot of time left this offseason but a lot of deals and trades have already happened.
    There is money available I believe, but who is left worth signing for a bat? Suzuki isn't going to be expensive, Stephen Drew would be some of that money, but he costs a 2nd round pick in a "deep" draft pool. I think he would be worth it for 3 year deal, as long as it isn't over 12 mil per. Slide Florimon into a utility role, would be pretty good slot for that guy. Punto with a little pop in the stick, but probably a little less defensively.

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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinscowboysbulls View Post
    There is money available I believe, but who is left worth signing for a bat? Suzuki isn't going to be expensive, Stephen Drew would be some of that money, but he costs a 2nd round pick in a "deep" draft pool. I think he would be worth it for 3 year deal, as long as it isn't over 12 mil per. Slide Florimon into a utility role, would be pretty good slot for that guy. Punto with a little pop in the stick, but probably a little less defensively.
    That might be the point.

  15. #30
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kab21 View Post
    That might be the point.
    I really wanted them to sign Salty, now that he is off the table I think Drew is the next obvious target. Other than that, they frankly don't have a lot of options. 1st base and 3rd base are out of the question obviously. 2nd base is tough to fill and Dozier appears to be a decent stop gap at the very least for now. SS needs an upgrade IMO, Drew would be a very nice player to bring in.

    OF is interesting...I think its safe to assume both Arcia and Buxton stick moving forward. Willingham is prob your LF this year, and the Twins still have guys like Rosario, Hicks etc who could fit in sooner rather than later as well. I'm not sure I would be committing long contracts to corner OF's at this point.

    DH is....well DH at this point. Not sure what impact bat would make sense bringing in.

    Personally I think the Twins should do the following:
    1. Sign Stephen Drew: The 2nd round pick should not prevent them from doing anything. He is an immediate upgrade and at least buys you 2-3 years of stability at the position.
    2. Sign a back up catcher. Suzuki is fine at this point.
    3. Call up the Mariners and try to buy low on Dustin Ackley. I think Ackley is a perfect candidate to add to the Twins. He obviously has potential, is still young enough to turn the bat around. He plays a solid defense at 2nd base as well, giving the Twins some additional depth there, and if he can figure it out at the dish, might even become an option for an OF spot down the road.
    4. If they balk on Ackley, trade for Montero. Montero has struggled obviously, but is still very, very young. He isn't an every day catcher most likely, but he can at least fill in 30-40 games or so behind the dish. His bat has the potential to play at DH as well if it all "clicks" and the potential for 25-30 HR power more than exists.

    Additionally I think if used properly Kubel has the potential to be an impact bat this year for the club, Willingham could have a nice bounceback as well.

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  17. #31
    I think Terry Ryan will add some offensive talent before season opens. The Twins offense I think will get better even with whats in place now. Moving Mauer to 1st is going to add offense for the Twins immediately his bat going in lineup for full season and I willing to bet his batting average and power improves this coming year he won't be so beat up and can play a few more games. Willingham should be healthy for coming year and if he is should add another 10 to 15 home runs for a season. Arcia should be better this year after having year up in majors. I believe center field position should be more productive too the Twins are going to have better hitting from that position than they received from Hicks and Clete Thomas. Sano could improve 3rd base production sometime this coming year. Like I said I think twins will look for offensive help in Outfield and DH but some of this could be solved on how they play some of players they have now in platoon system. Also if pitching is better Twin won't need to carry 13 pitchers so having another bat available should help them offensively. I think Twins are going to trade a few people before they open the season. If I was betting man Parmelee, Plouffe,, and Doumit could be on trading block or will be tried to see if they can clear waivers. Also Duensing or Diamond could be on trade block as well as Worley if they can get decent return by trading them and would free up money and spots for players working there way up system. I think the Twins are not so willing to carry some of these prospects and keeping a spot on the roster hoping they will start live up to what they thought when they acquired these players.

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  19. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by howeda7 View Post
    The first time they block a starter in AAA who is truly ready because they want more starts out of Corriea/Pelfrey, I'll worry. There's one spot open now. There will be another by June 1st. Everyone who's deserving will still get their shot.

    And as for leaving no money for a bat, the current payroll is ~$83 million. Exactly the same as last year and $20-$25 million less than 2011. If we're out of money to spend, Jim Pohlad should be ashamed of himself.
    Serious question - who was the last pitcher "truly ready" who was "blocked" so remained at AAA?

    We've become so desperate for pitchers to step up that we'd rather give starts to a guy with a 4+ era at AA just because he offers upside potential than to a veteran with a career era in the low 4s in the majors.

    I'm as excited as anyone about the prospects coming up thru the system, but just because I hope they'll be part of the solution and want them to succeed doesn't mean that they will. We've held open tryouts for two years. I'm ready to watch the occasional major league pitcher. When Gibson, Meyer, May, etc are ready, I guarantee the twins will move the bigger salaries out to accommodate. To me that's best case scenario and brings in a return that continues to supply prospects.

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  21. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by howeda7 View Post
    The first time they block a starter in AAA who is truly ready because they want more starts out of Corriea/Pelfrey, I'll worry. There's one spot open now. There will be another by June 1st. Everyone who's deserving will still get their shot.

    And as for leaving no money for a bat, the current payroll is ~$83 million. Exactly the same as last year and $20-$25 million less than 2011. If we're out of money to spend, Jim Pohlad should be ashamed of himself.
    2011 payroll 113.5 million so 30 million less

  22. #34
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    I am disappoint.

    I clicked into this thread expecting to learn of some "inappropriate for work" craze by siblings born at the same time sweeping the nation.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

  23. #35
    If the club is fairly certain that Diamond and Worley are unlikely to click as starters, I hope they are exploring interest from other clubs. Neither is too far removed from very solid seasons. There may be a team or two that would be willing to flip a reasonable prospect or even a legitimate player who could compete for time on our roster. Wouldn't mind if they found a third baseman that can make contact vs. righties, a veteran catcher and/or an upgrade at shortstop. I'd hate to DFA them if there was a chance to use them to improve elsewhere.
    Last edited by Gene Larkin Fan Club; 12-18-2013 at 08:37 AM.

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  25. #36
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    I think the only worry and it's a small one is that we lose a guy like Worley, Diamond or Deduno for nothing. Especially when I question how much of a step up is a guy like Pelfrey or Correia?

    In the end though really not a big deal. If they show up in Spring training and those guys are looking good the Twins will find a spot for them or be able to trade them. I guess I was hoping if we signed a 3rd pitcher it would be Garza because he is a clear upgrade on any of those guys. The one I would most like to see get another extended look is Worley. He did it in Philly for multiple seasons and even with last seasons debacle he owns a 4.05 career ERA. That and he's only 25. Really like his chances to rebound and be a part of this rotation for the next few years.

  26. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gene Larkin Fan Club View Post
    If the club is fairly certain that Diamond and Worley are unlikely to click as starters, I hope they are exploring interest from other clubs. Neither is too far removed from very solid seasons. There may be a team or two that would be willing to flip a reasonable prospect or even a legitimate player who could compete for time on our roster. Wouldn't mind if they found a third baseman that can make contact vs. righties, a veteran catcher and/or an upgrade at shortstop. I'd hate to DFA them if there was a chance to use them to improve elsewhere.
    You could even package them with a prospect or 2 who isnt revelant to the Twins future ,
    or include Trevor Plouffe in the package

  27. #38
    Perhaps a veteran back-up catcher is an even bigger priority now with Doumit gone and Pinto's shoulder being a bit of an uncertainty. Any ideas who may be available (other than Lobaton)? Looks like we have some depth to spare with back end of the rotation types. It would be nice to fill in some gaps in other spots.

  28. #39
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    • Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 3m
      Part of reason Twins clearing money is to add another starting pitcher (Bronson Arroyo?)

      12:42 PM - 18 Dec 13


      I still have trouble with that idea (adding Arroyo) but I do question how much these columnists know vs how much they just keep speculating.

      I see the Doumit deal as clearing a 40 man space and hopefully making it more likely that the Twins sign a catcher.

      Bronson Arroyo? mmmm, no. Not after signing Nolasco, Hughes & Pelfrey.


  29. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    • Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 3m
      Part of reason Twins clearing money is to add another starting pitcher (Bronson Arroyo?)

      12:42 PM - 18 Dec 13


      I still have trouble with that idea (adding Arroyo) but I do question how much these columnists know vs how much they just keep speculating.

      I see the Doumit deal as clearing a 40 man space and hopefully making it more likely that the Twins sign a catcher.

      Bronson Arroyo? mmmm, no. Not after signing Nolasco, Hughes & Pelfrey.
    I agree , It make no sense to add Bronson ,When Garza is still out there,
    If the sticking point is the 4th year, why not just offer up more money, and front load it
    Give him 51 million over 3 years and pay him 26 million for 2014, then 13/12 the last 2.
    Unless his arm falls off we have a Prime trading chip in 2015 or 16

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