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Thread: Game 17 - Twins vs Red Sox - April 23

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    You can pull whatever stats out of your arse you choose.

    Mauer has been a three hole hitter his entire career. Three seasons over 600 PAs, another 2 over 550. Never once driven in 100 runs.

    There's a reason for that, and it isn't just lack of opportunities.
    Actually, it appears it is just opportunities. Here's his career RISP numbers:
    AVG OBP SLG OPS
    .340 .454 .501 .955

    Those are simply spectacular numbers. Not only does he hit with RISP, he hits for power with RISP. Those weren't pulled out of anyone's "arse," those are Joe Mauer's actual numbers. http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/...r&type=Batting

    Edit to add: stats calculated from data on the page linked above, of Mauer's 511 career RBIs, 419 of those RBIs were with RISP. That's 82% of all of his RBIs.

    In 2008, he was the AL leader in Sac Flies: http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...-leaders.shtml

    Bottom line, it's clear that when Joe Mauer has had opportunities to drive in runs, he's done just that at a very, very impressive rate.

    Edit again to add: Not that it matters remotely, but I'm nowhere near a "20-something," so before you try to get back on your high horse...
    Last edited by deanlambrecht; 04-23-2012 at 11:28 PM.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    That's why, in that situation, you don't let it get to 2 strikes. You look for a ball early in the count that you can elevate to the OF.
    Which pitch? Or do you will them to throw one?

  3. #63
    Senior Member All-Star Ultima Ratio's Avatar
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    Let's really fill out the logic above: You have to a criminal to criticize criminals, you have to a woman to stand up for women, you have to be a starting MLB catcher for the Twins to critique or lament the performance of Joe Mauer. Have I got that about right? Of course Mauer is one the best hitters of all time, but he should have gotten that run home -- with or with getting a hit in the process. And grow up with the ad hominum jabs. Mauer will be the first one to admit he should have gotten that run in. And once you hear it from his lips -- you can finally believe it.
    Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Ratio View Post
    Let's really fill out the logic above: You have to a criminal to criticize criminals, you have to a woman to stand up for women, you have to be a starting MLB catcher for the Twins to critique or lament the performance of Joe Mauer. Have I got that about right? Of course Mauer is one the best hitters of all time, but he should have gotten that run home -- with or with getting a hit in the process. And grow up with the ad hominum jabs. Mauer will be the first one to admit he should have gotten that run in. And once you hear it from his lips -- you can finally believe it.
    That's become one of the biggest reaches I've read here. Instantly.

    Of course he should have. Of course he's upset he didn't. The comments I believe you're referring to were in response to comments about his general success.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kneelb4zerg View Post
    Well if you can think of several examples where a hitter failed in the clutch, then by all means! Case closed!!!
    I'm kinda mad I didn't get to that first.

  6. #66
    Super Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    Mauer is supposed to be a #3 hitter. Go ahead run on third, no outs. That's not the first, or second, or third time in this young season that Mauer has failed to drive in a runner from third, often due to an overly passive approach at the plate. OBP is fine, but driving in runs is still a skill in baseball, no matter what drivel the statgeeks like to declare about RBI.
    If there is a runner on third and Joe gets on base, would the runner not score? Does that count as an RBI or does it just inflate his OBP?

    I'm not going to call you names like some other posters have sunk to but I do think your argument is a little weak, not to mention mildly confident in that you question the hitting approach of one of the best hitters in baseball over the last 5 or 6 years.

    Mauer is a leader on this team, I don't know for sure but I get the impression his teammates feel pretty good about having Joe hit 3rd. He's as mentally strong as any player on that team, as evidenced by his consistent excellence. I'm not sure anyone on the Twins performs as well in that situation as Mauer. It's pretty presumptuous to think so, he's hit well from that spot before. The season is still so young, it's not even May for crying out loud!!

    I say right here it gets considerably better in the coming weeks.

  7. #67
    Super Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Ratio View Post
    Let's really fill out the logic above: You have to a criminal to criticize criminals, you have to a woman to stand up for women, you have to be a starting MLB catcher for the Twins to critique or lament the performance of Joe Mauer. Have I got that about right? Of course Mauer is one the best hitters of all time, but he should have gotten that run home -- with or with getting a hit in the process. And grow up with the ad hominum jabs. Mauer will be the first one to admit he should have gotten that run in. And once you hear it from his lips -- you can finally believe it.
    But he didn't, it isn't the first time and it won't be the last, like every other good hitter ever to play baseball. What, is Mauer supposed to bat 1000. with men on 3rd base? There can never be a time he doesn't get it done?

    I get it, you're frustrated with Mauer but get a little perspective.

  8. #68
    Super Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDog View Post
    I'm kinda mad I didn't get to that first.

    I notice in all the weak "but...but...but" responses, nobody mentions the lack of RBI in Mauer's career.

    And among the reasons the Twins ended up tonight with an L instead of a W, was the fact that our #3 hitter couldn't get the ball out of the infield with a runner at 3rd and nobody out in a tie game. He ended up putting a pitcher's pitch into play, with 2 strikes on him.

    Proof's in the "general success," so to speak. Or lack thereof.

  9. #69
    Super Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    I notice in all the weak "but...but...but" responses, nobody mentions the lack of RBI in Mauer's career.

    And among the reasons the Twins ended up tonight with an L instead of a W, was the fact that our #3 hitter couldn't get the ball out of the infield with a runner at 3rd and nobody out in a tie game. He ended up putting a pitcher's pitch into play, with 2 strikes on him.

    Proof's in the "general success," so to speak. Or lack thereof.
    In an effort to keep it clean s**t happens, deal with it, I'm sure Mauer will.

  10. #70
    Senior Member All-Star Ultima Ratio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinsnorth49 View Post
    But he didn't, it isn't the first time and it won't be the last, like every other good hitter ever to play baseball. What, is Mauer supposed to bat 1000. with men on 3rd base? There can never be a time he doesn't get it done?

    I get it, you're frustrated with Mauer but get a little perspective.
    You are correct. I am frustrated with this team and Mauer in particular BECAUSE he's the best hitter on the team (in baseball) and 1/4 of the payroll, and doesn't even need a hit in that situation, just a sacrifice. My thoughts are measured, thank you. I don't expect him to hit 1.000 (straw man) -- again, you and other comments here miss this point about the sac fly/sac hit. That's not "hitting" at all. Mauer could hit 0.000 for a month and that wouldn't have any bearing on that RBI.

    There can be times when Mauer doesn't get it done. But isn't it irritating that those time aren't' when we are 4 run up or down? Clutch 'hitting' (and I keep putting it in scare quotes because the RBI did NOT require a hit nor getting on base) is what I'm critiquing here, and giving some support to another poster for arguing something similar and getting attacked for it.
    Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

  11. #71
    Senior Member All-Star Ultima Ratio's Avatar
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    Hell, taking a walk and Willingham grounding into a DP would have got the run in.... and would have been a better scenario because even though there'd be no RBI, the run would still score.
    Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.

  12. #72
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    You could tell Mauer was very frustrated he didn't get the run in on the way back to the dugout. I myself am frustrated he didn't get the run in, but he worked the count full and in a lot cases you're going to get a better pitch to hit and a vintage Mauer base hit. Tonight it wasn't to be. I am honestly more frustrated with Doumit's at bat popping out on the first pitch and it wasn't a great pitch to hit.
    TwinsGuy55422
    "And we'll see ya tomorrow night!!!!"

  13. #73
    Super Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Earlier this year I thought Joe choked in the same situation and I didn't think the pitches were anything special and I said so and I said Joe makes too much money for that to happen.

    This case I gotta give the credit to Franklin Morales. Those were tough pitches. Sometimes the pitcher wins.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    I notice in all the weak "but...but...but" responses, nobody mentions the lack of RBI in Mauer's career.

    And among the reasons the Twins ended up tonight with an L instead of a W, was the fact that our #3 hitter couldn't get the ball out of the infield with a runner at 3rd and nobody out in a tie game. He ended up putting a pitcher's pitch into play, with 2 strikes on him.

    Proof's in the "general success," so to speak. Or lack thereof.
    Someone already posted that Joe has a .955 OPS in his career with RISP. HOW MUCH BETTER DO YOU EXPECT HIM TO HIT IN RBI OPPORTUNITIES???
    Screw facts when you have unsupported bias, right?

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    Letting Marquis pitch the 6th was bad enough. He had bobbed and weaved his way through 5 innings, and had the lead. He got lucky to get through the 6th...bringing him out for the 7th was just completely idiotic. You end up bringing in the pen to pitch in the 7th anyway, only now you no longer have the lead.
    From the "Let's Complain about Gardenhire" thread:

    http://twinsdaily.com/showthread.php...ull=1#post6831
    "Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief
    the fact that our #3 hitter couldn't get the ball out of the infield with a runner at 3rd and nobody out in a tie game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kneelb4zerg View Post
    Someone already posted that Joe has a .955 OPS in his career with RISP. HOW MUCH BETTER DO YOU EXPECT HIM TO HIT IN RBI OPPORTUNITIES???
    This sort of a post just kills me. As if hitters somehow can will themselves to be better hitters with RISP. Ooo--there's a guy on third, time to summon up my special hitting abilities to drive in runs. I don't use this special hitting ability unless there are guys on base, kind of saving it for those situations.
    "Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand."

  17. #77
    Super Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultima Ratio View Post
    You are correct. I am frustrated with this team and Mauer in particular BECAUSE he's the best hitter on the team (in baseball) and 1/4 of the payroll, and doesn't even need a hit in that situation, just a sacrifice. My thoughts are measured, thank you. I don't expect him to hit 1.000 (straw man) -- again, you and other comments here miss this point about the sac fly/sac hit. That's not "hitting" at all. Mauer could hit 0.000 for a month and that wouldn't have any bearing on that RBI.

    There can be times when Mauer doesn't get it done. But isn't it irritating that those time aren't' when we are 4 run up or down? Clutch 'hitting' (and I keep putting it in scare quotes because the RBI did NOT require a hit nor getting on base) is what I'm critiquing here, and giving some support to another poster for arguing something similar and getting attacked for it.
    No I get the point, hit/sacfrifice, whatever,let's just say, put the ball somewhere that allows the runner to score, you miss mine, no matter how much any of us wish it's going to happen every time, it's not, which you now seem to begrudgingly accept, although with a hint of petulance.

    Mauer has a proven track record of being a clutch hitter and I for one don't go for the Chicken Little "the sky is falling" reaction and suggest he's a major problem for the team because of a few bad outs at the wrong time, (I'm not even sure that was a bad out as much as a well pitched at bat......which also happens), that's just impulsive.

    I'm not attacking you, I respect your right to your opinion, I just don't agree with it, but that doesn't suggest I'm right.

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