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Thread: Article: Twins Trade Doumit to Braves

  1. #41
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer biggentleben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    Sure, but if the Braves just traded Doumit and his contract back to the Twins for Wimmers, you'd certainly be hyped the Braves obtained a buy low former first rounder, no matter how remote that ceiling is or how distant that prospect status in the past.
    Oy, no. Not at all. I may love the Braves, but I don't love every move they make and every guy wearing their uniform. I'm not a Doumit fan at all, but I'm not a Gilmartin fan at all either, so it's a wash for me, I guess.
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  3. #42
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    In exchange for a guy they had no room for, that they were paying millions of dollars, who would not be on the roster after next year, on a team that wants to sign more FAs and have a full 40 man roster........that team got even a AAA player for that guy? Good trade, even if Gilmartin never gets out of AAA.
    Lighten up Francis....

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  5. #43
    Senior Member Double-A zchrz's Avatar
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    I would think Diamond is gone for sure with the addition of Gilmartin and Johnson, so Deduno for the 5th spot if hes healthy and Worley to the pen?
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  6. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by notoriousgod71 View Post
    I haven't looked at his stats since being drafted but it's funny because Gilmartin was my prediction (along with many others) to be the Twins draft choice prior to the 2011 draft.

    And now looking at his stats it's obvious he fits everything that the Twins look for in a pitcher.

    More hits than IP? Check.

    Few BB? Check.

    Mediocre K rate? Check.

    Fastball velocity under 95? Check.

    Why even bother? If he's anything more than Nick Blackburn (or Scott Diamond since they're both lefties and from the Braves organization) I'll be shocked.

    I realize Doumit has no value but he is a carbon copy of 99 percent of the pitchers in this organization.
    I would have given Doumit away to clear roster space, I'm not sure what the gripe is. I'm not a Gilmartin fan, but still I love this. Just because I don't think the guy has much of a ceiling, I can recognize that others see his potential. Besides, getting a pitcher who made it to AAA in only two professional years seems more impressive than the Twins stable of pitchers who took closer to a decade to get there.

    Besides, Jonathan Mayo still ranks him the Braves #4 prospect. That seems high to me but so what? The Twins are lucky to get a top #15 prospect for Doumit.
    Last edited by nicksaviking; 12-18-2013 at 02:23 PM.

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  8. #45
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Looks like a good trade to me, everyone likes it except the Braves fan.
    I think the Wimmers crack is a little ridiculous personally. He is still only 23, his 2012 wasn't bad and he had a rough 2013. Perfect buy low move.

    You can never have enough pitching! At the very least he adds org depth, at best he becomes Scott Diamond lite if needed (or if Diamond hits arb)

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  10. #46
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer biggentleben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by halfchest View Post
    Really? That doesn't make any sense. The only thing they have in common is they were 1st round picks expected to fast track to the majors. Wimmers has 77 career minor league innings over just over 3 years. Gilmartin has 285 over just over 2 years. Now he's not someone to get overly excited about but at least has potential to be a big league starter still. Was the Braves top 5 guy a year ago. I'm not gonna let one bad year for a 23 year old make me think he's worthless. Better return than I would have ever expected for Doumit.
    Not sure who had him top 5, but it would be someone who valued "close to majors" over "upside". The comparison is apt as Gilmartin has lost a LOT from the guy he was pre-draft as has Wimmers.
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  11. #47
    What about the possibility of Gilmartin to the bullpen and trading Duensing for offense?

  12. #48
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notoriousgod71 View Post
    I haven't looked at his stats since being drafted but it's funny because Gilmartin was my prediction (along with many others) to be the Twins draft choice prior to the 2011 draft.

    And now looking at his stats it's obvious he fits everything that the Twins look for in a pitcher.

    More hits than IP? Check.

    Few BB? Check.

    Mediocre K rate? Check.

    Fastball velocity under 95? Check.

    Why even bother? If he's anything more than Nick Blackburn (or Scott Diamond since they're both lefties and from the Braves organization) I'll be shocked.

    I realize Doumit has no value but he is a carbon copy of 99 percent of the pitchers in this organization.
    FWIW: Blackburn gave the Twins 5.4 WAR over two years, and Diamond gave them a 2.3 WAR a year ago. If he equals either one of those guys it would be a great thing frankly. One or two years as a CHEAP #5 has value. (It can allow you to not sign veterans for $5-$6 mil to fill those spots)

  13. #49
    Senior Member Triple-A Steve Lein's Avatar
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    Interesting, I thought the Twins would draft him in 2011 if he was there, but was grabbed a few spots in front of them.

    I actually like the return, though Gilmartin has far from lived up to his 1st round pedigree. It's always good to have some lefty options though, especially for the Twins right now.
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  14. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    I would have given Doumit away to clear roster space, I'm not sure what the gripe is. I'm not a Gilmartin fan, but still I love this. Just because I don't think the guy has much of a ceiling, I can recognize that others see his potential. Besides, getting a pitcher who made it to AAA in only two professional years seems more impressive than the Twins stable of pitchers who took closer to a decade to get there.

    Besides, Jonathan Mayo still ranks him the Braves #4 prospect. That seems high to me but so what? The Twins are lucky to get a top #15 prospect for Doumit.
    While Doumit had very little value to the Twins because he is so similar to a half dozen other players we have, Gilmartin has that same little value because he is so similar to a half dozen other players we have.

    Basically it's just cutting salary which doesn't get me excited as a fan.

  15. #51
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer biggentleben's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    Besides, Jonathan Mayo still ranks him the Braves #4 prospect. That seems high to me but so what? The Twins are lucky to get a top #15 prospect for Doumit.
    Mayo hasn't updated his rankings since preseason.

    Gilmartin was #14 in John Sickels' top 20 and in the rankings the site I write for put together.
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  16. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by biggentleben View Post
    Not sure who had him top 5, but it would be someone who valued "close to majors" over "upside". The comparison is apt as Gilmartin has lost a LOT from the guy he was pre-draft as has Wimmers.
    Baseball America and MLB.com had him in the top 5.

  17. #53
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    John Sickels wrote this about Gilmartin two weeks ago:
    14) Sean Gilmartin, LHP, Grade C+: Ugly season in Triple-A (5.74 ERA, 112 hits in 91 innings) was marred by shoulder problems. If healthy, profiles as a strike-throwing fourth starter who gets by on feel and moxie rather than pure stuff.

    Twins have been linked to him for a while now - since the draft - so they must have some pretty strong scouting reports on him. It's a sensible move. If he gives us one Diamond like season, it's a win. It'd be great if every pitcher was Alex Meyer but they can't all be. Gilmartin is reasonably close to ML ready.

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  19. #54
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notoriousgod71 View Post
    While Doumit had very little value to the Twins because he is so similar to a half dozen other players we have, Gilmartin has that same little value because he is so similar to a half dozen other players we have.

    Basically it's just cutting salary which doesn't get me excited as a fan.
    Big difference.

    A major league team has 11-12 pitchers on a roster, while only 1-3 DH/Backup DH types at most.

    Pitching is always at a premium.

  20. #55
    Twins Daily Writer All-Star Jeremy Nygaard's Avatar
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    I remember the 2011 draft unfolding and, as the Twins approached their pick at 30, being really unhappy about them potentially taking Gilmartin. I knew they liked him and he totally fit what they did in the draft. When he went at 28, I breathed a huge sigh of relief... and then they took Levi Michael.

    The Braves went on to give Gilmartin $1.134m as a signing bonus and got a pitcher that was considered near major-league ready by the end of his first full season.

    Yes, Gilmartin was brutal in 2013 and doesn't profile as the same pitcher he did a year ago, but the Twins got him when his value was low and were able to get the Braves to take Doumit's full salary back? That move is impossible for Twins fans not to like.

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  22. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by biggentleben View Post
    Not sure who had him top 5, but it would be someone who valued "close to majors" over "upside". The comparison is apt as Gilmartin has lost a LOT from the guy he was pre-draft as has Wimmers.
    oh just Fangraphs, BA (actually #4) and MLB.com Jerod Mayo. No one who knows anything.

    You may be right that he's not worth much but he has the potential too. This from mlbtraderumors is interesting too.

    "Gilmartin struggled through injuries and posted a 5.06 ERA across three levels in 2013, averaging 6.9 K/9 and 2.8 BB/9 in a total of 105 innings. Selected with the No. 28 overall pick in the 2011 draft, Gilmartin draws praise for his polish from both BA and MLB.com. BA writes that his 89-91 mph fastball has good movement and is complemented by a plus changeup and a slider with "sharp, late break." According to Mayo, "[Gilmartin's] ceiling is somewhat limited, but he's not far from being ready to step in as a middle-of-the-rotation type in the big leagues."

    Now if that Mayo quote is to be believed then this is a great move for the Twins a mid rotation guy is nothing to sneeze at considering the Twins have just committed like 85 million to essentially two 3-4 starters (Hughes/Pelfrey) and one 2-3 starter (Nolasco) this offseason. That might be overvaluing these three guys two It could be argued none of them are better than 3 type starter. Anyhow, I like the move, don't see the Wimmers comp. Sure both have lost value but Wimmers almost never had it. At least Gilmartin had a solid 2012 campaign.

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  24. #57
    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    Article: Twins Trade Doumit to Braves


  25. #58
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    The thing about Gilmartin is he is not out of options come spring so if he gets sent down big deal. He will likely replace Worely or Diamond after springtraining when they get DFA'd because they have no remaining options. good move to pre-emptively replace the depth.

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  27. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    FWIW: Blackburn gave the Twins 5.4 WAR over two years, and Diamond gave them a 2.3 WAR a year ago. If he equals either one of those guys it would be a great thing frankly. One or two years as a CHEAP #5 has value. (It can allow you to not sign veterans for $5-$6 mil to fill those spots)
    I've mentioned my hatred of WAR many times. Blackburn was somehow a positive WAR player in 2010 also despite his 5.42 ERA and terrible peripherals across the board. The scary thing about pitchers like this are that one fluke season can fool the Twins brass into thinking they are viable pitchers and then we are stuck watching them for another three years while there are better candidates.

  28. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by notoriousgod71 View Post
    While Doumit had very little value to the Twins because he is so similar to a half dozen other players we have, Gilmartin has that same little value because he is so similar to a half dozen other players we have.

    Basically it's just cutting salary which doesn't get me excited as a fan.
    and it clears a roster space. And it makes it more likely a better backup catcher will be around. And it makes it more likely the DH will be better than Doumit.

    I do agree, if all it does is save money, that will bother me as a fan.....but that is not all it does.
    Lighten up Francis....

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