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Thread: Article: Twins Trade Doumit to Braves

  1. #61
    Senior Member All-Star Boom Boom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    Darren Wolfson ‏@DarrenWolfson 8m Confirmed: #Braves taking all of Doumit's $3.5M. This is a great move by the #MNTwins.
    Not sure why Doogie would care that much about the $3.5 mil to call it a "great" trade. It's not like the Twins needed to free up that money to make a big splash.

  2. #62
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by biggentleben View Post
    Oy, no. Not at all. I may love the Braves, but I don't love every move they make and every guy wearing their uniform. I'm not a Doumit fan at all, but I'm not a Gilmartin fan at all either, so it's a wash for me, I guess.
    I wasn't implying that, so much as suggesting that you're overvaluing Doumit's worth however much you think Gilmartin is a failed prospect. I, for one, didn't think the Twins could give Doumit away. Gilmartin might turn out to be nothing, but perhaps the Twins see some value in back of the rotation innings over the next couple years (as he's not on the roster, and no options have been used), which the Twins have had historically awful depth lately.

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  4. #63
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boom Boom View Post
    Not sure why Doogie would care that much about the $3.5 mil to call it a "great" trade. It's not like the Twins needed to free up that money to make a big splash.
    It's a great move, because Doogie is implying that Doumit is not worth his contract--that the Twins were able to obtain anything at all without having to kick in cash (whether they needed to for budget reasons or not) is an obvious win.

    Not quite as good as the Butera trade, but still some excellent gamesmanship by trader terry.

  5. #64
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Per MLBTR:

    Ben, your comparisons to Wimmers are very disengenous, it says below that he still is #4 in a well respected list, and was still #10 for Baseball America. Also they say they think he can be a middle of rotation starter.

    Additionally the Braves are taking on the WHOLE contract.

    Gilmartin, 23, entered the season ranked as the Braves' No. 4 prospect (per Baseball America) heading into the 2013 season. Though he suffered a down year, BA still ranked him 10th among Braves prospects, and MLB.com's Jonathan Mayo kept his ranking strong at No. 4 despite the poor season.

    Gilmartin struggled through injuries and posted a 5.06 ERA across three levels in 2013, averaging 6.9 K/9 and 2.8 BB/9 in a total of 105 innings. Selected with the No. 28 overall pick in the 2011 draft, Gilmartin draws praise for his polish from both BA and MLB.com. BA writes that his 89-91 mph fastball has good movement and is complemented by a plus changeup and a slider with "sharp, late break." According to Mayo, "[Gilmartin's] ceiling is somewhat limited, but he's not far from being ready to step in as a middle-of-the-rotation type in the big leagues."

  6. #65
    This trade actually achieves several things. 1) It clears an immediate 40 man roster spot for the Pelfrey signing. 2) It clears out a corner outfield/DH position player of which the Twins have too many. 3) It provides depth at AAA for the possibility of losing any of Deduno/Diamond/Worley who are all out of options and must clear waivers (dfa'd) to be sent down. 4) Clears a possible spot for a free agent catcher signing (but not roster spot). 5) Clears additional salary for potential signing of additional players.

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  8. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Big difference.

    A major league team has 11-12 pitchers on a roster, while only 1-3 DH/Backup DH types at most.

    Pitching is always at a premium.
    Good pitching is at a premium. I couldn't care less if that fifth, sixth, seventh starter is Diamond, Gilmartin, Johnson, etc. They're all the same guy.

    As an explanation I don't hate the trade (even though it likely appears that way). I just find it pointless and yes, I'd rather have Doumit.

  9. #67
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notoriousgod71 View Post
    I've mentioned my hatred of WAR many times. Blackburn was somehow a positive WAR player in 2010 also despite his 5.42 ERA and terrible peripherals across the board. The scary thing about pitchers like this are that one fluke season can fool the Twins brass into thinking they are viable pitchers and then we are stuck watching them for another three years while there are better candidates.
    Blackburn was 0.2 in 2010, basically replacement level.

    Also, I think we can put this "well the Twins did this in the past, so they will do it in the future" meme that is so popular here. People said the Twins would never spend in free agency (which was incorrect), they would only go after non upside guys (which was incorrect)

    Just because the Twins gave Blackburn a foolish extension doesn't mean they will do it again if Gilmartin happens to have a solid year or two. They certainly didn't give Diamond an extension after his nice 2012, and they didn't have a long leash on him last year either.

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  11. #68
    Senior Member All-Star Boom Boom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    It's a great move, because Doogie is implying that Doumit is not worth his contract--that the Twins were able to obtain anything at all without having to kick in cash (whether they needed to for budget reasons or not) is an obvious win.

    Not quite as good as the Butera trade, but still some excellent gamesmanship by trader terry.
    Sure, Doumit isn't worth his contract, but who is? $3.5 mil is a manageable sum and the Twins already had cash to spare if they wanted to spend more. Doumit was redundant, I understand, but Doumit at $3.5 mil won't kill you.

    It's not a bad trade as a salary dump, but "great" is an exaggeration IMO.

  12. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Blackburn was 0.2 in 2010, basically replacement level.

    Also, I think we can put this "well the Twins did this in the past, so they will do it in the future" meme that is so popular here. People said the Twins would never spend in free agency (which was incorrect), they would only go after non upside guys (which was incorrect)

    Just because the Twins gave Blackburn a foolish extension doesn't mean they will do it again if Gilmartin happens to have a solid year or two. They certainly didn't give Diamond an extension after his nice 2012, and they didn't have a long leash on him last year either.
    I just don't see upside in Nolasco (although I applaud the Twins for making an effort and signing a pitcher to a big contract), Hughes, Pelfrey, or Gilmartin.

    They stuck with Diamond 24 starts too long.

  13. #70
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notoriousgod71 View Post
    I haven't looked at his stats since being drafted but it's funny because Gilmartin was my prediction (along with many others) to be the Twins draft choice prior to the 2011 draft.

    And now looking at his stats it's obvious he fits everything that the Twins look for in a pitcher.

    More hits than IP? Check.

    Few BB? Check.

    Mediocre K rate? Check.

    Fastball velocity under 95? Check.

    Why even bother? If he's anything more than Nick Blackburn (or Scott Diamond since they're both lefties and from the Braves organization) I'll be shocked.

    I realize Doumit has no value but he is a carbon copy of 99 percent of the pitchers in this organization.
    He's probably a carbon copy of 95% of pitchers in the minors.

    That said, I don't see the concern. I'd have been suprised if we had gotten more for Doumit if he had a bounce back season. Not to mention that this helps out the 40 man situation.

    As well, the kid is a 1st rounder from 2011. I get that he hasn't blossomed the way people would want, but injuries can do that too, and it's quite possible that our staff sees something else. I'm willing to give TR the benefit of the doubt here, as I highly doubt Doumit that 2012 Doumit with 2014's contract would have gotten much else at the deadline.

  14. #71
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer minn55441's Avatar
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    I like the move. Gilmartin's numbers got progressively worse as he moved up, but he is still only 23. Can't ever have too many young, left handed starters.
    Last edited by minn55441; 12-18-2013 at 02:51 PM.

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  16. #72
    Senior Member Double-A Musk21's Avatar
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    Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 4m Part of reason Twins clearing money is to add another starting pitcher (Bronson Arroyo?)
    If Twins can't re-sign Hunter, plans are to trade, sign a FA or go in-house to find a replacement.

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  18. #73
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notoriousgod71 View Post
    Good pitching is at a premium. I couldn't care less if that fifth, sixth, seventh starter is Diamond, Gilmartin, Johnson, etc. They're all the same guy.

    As an explanation I don't hate the trade (even though it likely appears that way). I just find it pointless and yes, I'd rather have Doumit.
    According to Mayo over at MLB.com he has the potential to be middle of the rotation guy. He is coming off an injury filled year and is still pretty young. FWIW he was listed as the #4 prospect by him heading into 2014, and BA #10 is nothing to sleep on as well.

    Is he an Alex Meyer type prospect? Of course not, but he is a legit one at this point, and for getting that for Doumit is a no brainer and a huge win.

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  20. #74
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    I like the move. The kid might need to spend the year in AAA and show he can pitch there first, but moving Doumit for a guy that ranked 4-10 in his organization is a no-brainer. We have plenty of players that have Doumit potential but need to have his playing time to show it.

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  22. #75
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musk21 View Post
    Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 4m Part of reason Twins clearing money is to add another starting pitcher (Bronson Arroyo?)
    I saw that too. Is that Buster's opinion? Or does he have a source? I hate ambiguous tweeting.

  23. #76
    The plot thickens about catcher for next year.

    Seems like they have to find a veteran and am wondering now if it will go beyond the free agent market to a possible trade to get a reliable back up, who could take on the regular catching duties if Pinto is not able to carry the load. Not sure John Buck fits the bill anymore.

  24. #77
    Great move--basically a salary dump. Also opens up a spot on the 40 man for Pelfrey. We get another lefty to compete with the guy we got for Morneau for a spot on the 40 man. Also opens up the LH bench spot for Kubel who at least can play a little OF defense.

  25. #78
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    I like the move as well. Gets ride of Doumit and opens up a possible addition to the big club, if not Gilmartin.

  26. #79
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musk21 View Post
    Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 4m Part of reason Twins clearing money is to add another starting pitcher (Bronson Arroyo?)
    Clear roster space maybe, why would they need to clear money? They have plenty left to spend.

    I like the Doumit trade personally, he's redundant. Gilmartin may prove to be as well but at 23 at least there is potential to have a useful player down the road.

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  28. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by biggentleben View Post
    Was joking about Gilmartin, but his toe jam may be more valuable than Gilmartin himself. This isn't good for either team.
    Not good for MN? Cleared $3.5M off the books, which could get Suzuki easily and you got a LHP who was rushed in the minors. The Twins will probably start him at AA where he belongs and let him gain some confidence before a promotion.

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