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Thread: Pedro Florimon

  1. #201
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    Rieder, what in my statement wasn't "entirely true"? You support Florimon and think that you he can improve his strikeouts so that he can improve his overall offense. My statement didn't say supporters thought he could win a Silver Slugger, just that he could improve with the bat.

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don't Feed the Greed Guy View Post
    I think of this as a payroll management move too.
    The Twins are swimming in cash and the projections show the team getting cheaper.

  3. #203
    Senior Member Triple-A Don't Feed the Greed Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJL44 View Post
    The Twins are swimming in cash and the projections show the team getting cheaper.
    To what projections do you refer? The Twins have spent a ton of money in the offseason on free agent pitchers. How does that fit into your projections?

    To be fair, I agree that the Twins have some more money to spend. I'm not opposed to seeing the Pohlad family spend more money, but I'd like to see them spend the right money on the right players. Spycake thinks that a competitive offer for Drew would be 2 yrs/$24m or 3/30. I just don't think that's the right upgrade for a player that seems to be willing to admit that his skills are waning--as he's willing to take on a utility role: http://www.gammonsdaily.com/gammons-...raves-payroll/

    In the meantime, we have a second-year shortstop locked in at $500k. He's an above average to excellent talent in the field. He and Dozier play well together. Let's not break up the band yet.

    The team should improve by leaps and bounds when players like Buxton and Sano arrive. It can also improve incrementally if players like Hicks and Florimon can raise their OBP to over .300. Is that too much to ask?

  4. #204
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    The story that Drew is willing to play other positions gets my attention. The Twins really need a LH bat to counterbalance the splits that Dozier and Plouffe have put up. If Drew were willing and able and the Twins concurred, perhaps he could play 60-80 games at third, another 20 or so at second, and twenty to thirty at short. If someone got hurt or quite hitting, Drew could claim that spot. I still don't think that Drew will be worth anywhere near the numbers being bandied about, but I don't deny that he is a far better hitter than two of the Twins starting infielders.

  5. #205
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    I believe the Drew willing to play other positions story is just Drew and Boras trying to drum up interest and competition in what has been a quiet market for him. Nobody is going to sign him to an 8-figure deal to be a utility player.

  6. #206
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    Even with the new pitchers the projection is next year's payroll goes down (Willingham, Burton and Correia replaced with minor league talent). The current payroll is about the same as last year despite the increased revenue. By keeping payroll flat the Twins are spending about $40M a season below what they could be spending.

    If they aren't going to spend on Stephen Drew I'd like to see them go after Aledmys Diaz.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by spycake View Post
    I assume you mean top 5 SS defensively, not overall. Outside of Simmons, I don't think there is that much separation among MLB SS defensively, so a higher ranking there means a lot less than a higher offensive ranking or overall ranking.
    Of course I mean defensively.
    Another way to look at it: even if you are fine with Florimon's defense and giving him another year, do you still think the Twins should make a competitive offer for Drew? If his market truly has thinned out, and we could steal him for less than widely reported (2/24, 3/30, maybe even another 1 year deal?), would you be willing to shelve the Florimon experiment?
    I think the Twins should persue any player who could help improve the team, but I don't think Drew is worth $10m+/year + a 2nd round draft pick for 3 years. I just wouldn't do it unless it was an "all-in" situation. I like Drew better on a 1 or 2 year deal and 7 figures instead of 8. Reality is the Twins have been sitting on their hands since the end of 2010 and they improved the starting rotation this off season because they had to. I really can't see them signing Drew or all of a sudden becoming aggressive on the offensive side of things.

    I really like giving Florimon another year at his current salary and I am getting the impression that a lot of fans feel strongly about signing Drew. So strongly that it comes across as "Drew or bust." I don't see it that way. Hardy is available on trade and he could very well be available next off season as a free agent. I'd rather go after or wait for Hardy than sign Drew. That way it's a win win. You give Florimon his well earned opportunity and then improve the offense @ SS if / when he doesn't show any improvement.

    And Hardy is only one example. The Twins will likely have at least a couple of years to find a replacement, there's no need to panic. Most of the Twins' young prospects are still developing in the minors. It will be a couple/few years before they are established MLB players (if they ever are).

    Lastly, I don't call Florimon an experiment. I think he brings a lot to the table defensively and has something to work with offensively. He has value at $500,000/year for the time being.
    Last edited by Reider; 01-16-2014 at 02:12 PM.

  8. #208
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    I agree 100% on having Florimon over Drew at shortstop this year and perhaps in 2015 as well. As stated this is not the year to panic, not even a tiny bit, let's do that if and when the young prospects in the minors do not develop into MLB players.

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  10. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringer bell View Post
    The story that Drew is willing to play other positions gets my attention. The Twins really need a LH bat to counterbalance the splits that Dozier and Plouffe have put up. If Drew were willing and able and the Twins concurred, perhaps he could play 60-80 games at third, another 20 or so at second, and twenty to thirty at short. If someone got hurt or quite hitting, Drew could claim that spot. I still don't think that Drew will be worth anywhere near the numbers being bandied about, but I don't deny that he is a far better hitter than two of the Twins starting infielders.
    Quote Originally Posted by oldguy10 View Post
    I agree 100% on having Florimon over Drew at shortstop this year and perhaps in 2015 as well. As stated this is not the year to panic, not even a tiny bit, let's do that if and when the young prospects in the minors do not develop into MLB players.


    Perhaps this development in willing position flexibility on Drew's part is why the Twins have blinked (if not "panicked") and apparently have moved off of their previously obstinate stance on Drew and finally come to the realization how desperately they need another LH bat (well, that development, and this Epic Mega-Pedro Florimon thread might be swaying opinion at One Twins Way, as well ):

    The Twins would take Stephen Drew and surrender that second round draft pick if he fell into the Twins lap, according to Wolfson. Wolfson threw out the numbers of 3-years and $30 million to when the Twins would bite.
    It is just Doogie, but this is the first acknowledgement that the Twins are even considering the possibility. Of course, it could all be just Boras stirring the pot to get the Mets to ante up.
    Last edited by jokin; 01-16-2014 at 05:15 PM.

  11. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don't Feed the Greed Guy View Post
    To what projections do you refer? The Twins have spent a ton of money in the offseason on free agent pitchers. How does that fit into your projections?

    To be fair, I agree that the Twins have some more money to spend. I'm not opposed to seeing the Pohlad family spend more money, but I'd like to see them spend the right money on the right players. Spycake thinks that a competitive offer for Drew would be 2 yrs/$24m or 3/30. I just don't think that's the right upgrade for a player that seems to be willing to admit that his skills are waning--as he's willing to take on a utility role: http://www.gammonsdaily.com/gammons-...raves-payroll/

    In the meantime, we have a second-year shortstop locked in at $500k. He's an above average to excellent talent in the field. He and Dozier play well together. Let's not break up the band yet.

    The team should improve by leaps and bounds when players like Buxton and Sano arrive. It can also improve incrementally if players like Hicks and Florimon can raise their OBP to over .300. Is that too much to ask?
    Twins sit today at about 4 million more then the 79 million they spent in 2009.
    According to 2 different money Mags the Twins projected to earned 214 and 215 million last
    year , now add in the national TV increase of 26 million and the all star bump of 30 million , (also im guessing we will see an increase in attendence this season +300,000) so even without the attendence increase the Twins are projected to earn 270 million in 2014

  12. #211
    How does Diaz project? Can he play SS at the MLB level? I like to idea of an international FA in concept, at least in comparison to Drew. Theoretically, a "Diaz type" would be a long-term asset as opposed to a stop gap. I don't like the odds that Drew is healthy and productive in 2016 which I think is the earliest this team contends, especially if Sano is delayed by injury.

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  14. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reider View Post
    I like Drew better on a 1 or 2 year deal and 7 figures instead of 8.



    I really can't see them signing Drew or all of a sudden becoming aggressive on the offensive side of things.
    The Twins appear finally, to be at the least, putting their toes into the water on Drew. I have to think that Boras thinks that between now and 2015 this is the best year that Drew can get a long-term deal by letting it be publicly known that Drew has positional flexibility- in the process, hopefully leaving out the one year option as a viable alternative. Maybe Boras comes to the conclusion that a 2 year deal could give Drew a more open field for another big contract in 2016. 2 years should be awfully appealing to the Twins, and might be just enough to keep the Mets and Red Sox at bat to get it done.

    By making this type of deal, the Twins could keep Florimon at minimum wage for the next couple of years, maximize what he does best- minimize where he hurts the team, and in the process, strengthen the overall offensive output for the next 2 years.

    I can see the Twins becoming aggressive on the offensive side of things....especially once they take a good, hard look at the projections.
    Last edited by jokin; 01-16-2014 at 05:27 PM.

  15. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major Leauge Ready View Post
    How does Diaz project? Can he play SS at the MLB level? I like to idea of an international FA in concept, at least in comparison to Drew. Theoretically, a "Diaz type" would be a long-term asset as opposed to a stop gap. I don't like the odds that Drew is healthy and productive in 2016 which I think is the earliest this team contends, especially if Sano is delayed by injury.
    Or with Texas losing Holland , maybe Terry should look to ease the log jam of soon to be out of option pitchers and a prospect for the Rangers #2 prospect sardinas?

  16. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major Leauge Ready View Post
    How does Diaz project? Can he play SS at the MLB level? I like to idea of an international FA in concept, at least in comparison to Drew. Theoretically, a "Diaz type" would be a long-term asset as opposed to a stop gap. I don't like the odds that Drew is healthy and productive in 2016 which I think is the earliest this team contends, especially if Sano is delayed by injury.
    Lots of reports out there that his defense projects only to 2nd base. He's stilll a nice gamble, but that should certainly give TR pause on emptying the International signing bankroll.

  17. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by johnnydakota View Post
    Or with Texas losing Holland , maybe Terry should look to ease the log jam of soon to be out of option pitchers and a prospect for the Rangers #2 prospect sardinas?
    I like it. You would think Texas would be willing to deal him given their depth at SS. He is Florimon but with a better hit tool. I don't know what it would take but he would be a nice addition to our farm system.

  18. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnydakota View Post
    Or with Texas losing Holland , maybe Terry should look to ease the log jam of soon to be out of option pitchers and a prospect for the Rangers #2 prospect sardinas?
    Very Intriguing. Would Correia and a slightly lower-level prospect do it? (Hint: The Rangers do like their good bat/no field types from which we have an abundance). Sardinas still looks to be 2 years away.

    How about a deal with the Rays for Plouffe (fits into their super-UTIL scheme perfectly at DH/LF/1B/2B) and a prospect for Yunel Escobar or Hak Jun Lee?

  19. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    The Twins appear finally, to be at the least, putting their toes into the water on Drew. I have to think that Boras thinks that between now and 2015 this is the best year that Drew can get a long-term deal by letting it be publicly known that Drew has positional flexibility- in the process, hopefully leaving out the one year option as a viable alternative. Maybe Boras comes to the conclusion that a 2 year deal could give Drew a more open field for another big contract in 2016. 2 years should be awfully appealing to the Twins, and might be just enough to keep the Mets and Red Sox at bat to get it done.

    By making this type of deal, the Twins could keep Florimon at minimum wage for the next couple of years, maximize what he does best- minimize where he hurts the team, and in the process, strengthen the overall offensive output for the next 2 years.

    I can see the Twins becoming aggressive on the offensive side of things....especially once they take a good, hard look at the projections.
    Well it's already the middle of January. It would be pretty crazy if the Twins are just realizing now that they need to upgrade their offense for next season. After watching their aggressiveness in signing starting pitchers, it wouldn't surprise me if they were aggressive with signing other players too. However, it just seems like they are kicking their offensive can down the road considering they've signed guys like Bartlett, Kubel, and Suzuki. When they trade for or sign a big name guy, I'll believe it.

    So if the Twins signed Drew, you would keep Florimon? Who would Drew replace on the roster then? Escobar or Plouffe? The Twins would have an awesome defensive infield if Drew played 3rd base. That's hypothetical of course.. it's not that I see it actually happening.

  20. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Very Intriguing. Would Correia and a slightly lower-level prospect do it? (Hint: The Rangers do like their good bat/no field types from which we have an abundance). Sardinas still looks to be 2 years away.

    How about a deal with the Rays for Plouffe (fits into their super-UTIL scheme perfectly at DH/LF/1B/2B) and a prospect for Yunel Escobar or Hak Jun Lee?
    Im not as concerened for this year as I am for the future, Adding a solid defensive SS with some offensive skills and speed ,that would give us some hope if Santana proves to be only a utility player instead of a starting shortstop. It also saves some coin , (not much but some ) and frees up some space on the 40 man roster

  21. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reider View Post
    Well it's already the middle of January. It would be pretty crazy if the Twins are just realizing now that they need to upgrade their offense for next season. After watching their aggressiveness in signing starting pitchers, it wouldn't surprise me if they were aggressive with signing other players too. However, it just seems like they are kicking their offensive can down the road considering they've signed guys like Bartlett, Kubel, and Suzuki. When they trade for or sign a big name guy, I'll believe it.

    So if the Twins signed Drew, you would keep Florimon? Who would Drew replace on the roster then? Escobar or Plouffe? The Twins would have an awesome defensive infield if Drew played 3rd base. That's hypothetical of course.. it's not that I see it actually happening.
    If the Twins go with 6 IF, you theoreically can keep all of them, especially now that Drew is willing to play other positions. But I can see them still trying to trade Plouffe before the season begins.

  22. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reider View Post
    I really like giving Florimon another year at his current salary and I am getting the impression that a lot of fans feel strongly about signing Drew. So strongly that it comes across as "Drew or bust." I don't see it that way. Hardy is available on trade and he could very well be available next off season as a free agent. I'd rather go after or wait for Hardy than sign Drew. That way it's a win win. You give Florimon his well earned opportunity and then improve the offense @ SS if / when he doesn't show any improvement.

    And Hardy is only one example. The Twins will likely have at least a couple of years to find a replacement, there's no need to panic. Most of the Twins' young prospects are still developing in the minors. It will be a couple/few years before they are established MLB players (if they ever are).
    There's no reason they couldn't sign Drew now and still target shortstops in the future, if a better or longer-term solution became available. 3/30 now is nowhere near stressing Twins future payrolls, and Drew's bat and glove look like they could play at multiple other positions too.

    Assuming that Drew is a better bet to perform well over the next 3 years than Florimon (pretty much indisputable, IMHO?), it actually decreases the possibility/necessity of a "panic move" at the position within the next few years.

    As far as Hardy being "only one example", the Twins have spent the last 3 seasons (and arguably the last 6) searching for a shortstop. It's not that easy to find them. Certainly not easy enough that the Twins should be passing up affordable and available FA options to give second or third chances to waiver wire fodder.

    Now, I don't have any strong feelings about Drew specifically, so if the Twins really think he's near a cliff or has lingering health issues, I am fine with passing on him. But the primary reason for passing on a FA upgrade at this position shouldn't be the modest cost or making a commitment to Florimon.

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