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Thread: Does Phil Miller know something here?

  1. #21
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    All Miller said was PERHAPS win a starting role. I do not think it is out of the realm of possibilities that PERHAPS Bartlett beats out Florimon. It is not likely to me that Florimon will ever be as good as Bartlett was. Matters how healthy Bartlett is.

    Hardy, Wieters, Castro are listed as being available but what would we have to trade to acquire these guys. I think free agency is our only recourse other than minor trades. Or a trade where we take on salary to acquire value.
    Last edited by Otwins; 01-10-2014 at 12:44 AM.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Drew and Hardy available at SS.

    Morales and M Young available to DH.

    Weiters and possibly Jason Castro at C.

    Possibly Pods or Grady Sizemore available as CFs.

    Jason Kubel would be a great story if he can come in here and hit like he did in 2012, but I think the odds are pretty long to get that type of production:

    1)he got those 2012 numbers in the thin desert air,
    2)he hates Target Field,
    3)you can't possibly play him in the OF at the same time that Willingham is out there (Arcia may need another trip down to AAA),
    4)his K% has gone up every year dramatically since 2009, alarmingly up to 31.7% in 2013,
    5)his Contact Rate is also plummeting, to career lows (69.8%) in 2013..(he averaged in the 80+% while with the Twins).

    Hope the Twins have him visit an ophthamologist.
    I am all for getting Weiters and Hardy. Think the Orioles would take Correia, Burton, Florimon, and Duensing in trade for the two? Add Willingham and maybe they might even throw in a prospect. Realistically to get one of those players start with one off Sano or Buxton, add another prospect or two from the top 10 and they might not hang up the phone. Same goes for Castro.
    Last edited by The Wise One; 01-10-2014 at 03:39 AM.

  3. #23
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    The Twins hedged their bets with both Kubel and Bartlett. Kubel may have been told things, but the cruel reality is if he does not look good in spring training, he will be a Red Wing.

  4. #24
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    Sizemore sounds like a nice idea (back in 2010, you could have made a good case for him to be set up to be one of the best players for the next decade), but realistically, I don't see that happening at all. We should want Hicks to get another shot at CF, and with the way Buxton is coming, it has to be sooner rather than later for Hicks to get another shot. If you sign Sizemore, then you likely have a muddled situation no matter how you work it.

    To answer the question at hand, it does seem quite plausible to me that Bartlett could, if healthy, be the Twins starting SS on Opening Day. That doesn't mean he would be much of upgrade, but that speaks more of their current options rather than his level of play.

  5. #25
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    The bar really isn't set very high for Bartlett. If he can hit better than .221/.281/.330 (Florimon's 2013 numbers) he could definitely be the starter...

  6. #26
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    I was never particularly high on Bartlett's defense when he was with the Twins. I know that others were, and his defense seemed to improve a bit with Tampa. I always did like his offense, considering that there was no power. Still he seems a long shot to me. I would think that the chances of him being more than a backup at this stage of his career are very high against, and I am not sure that he is likely to be any clear upgrade to Escobar. Whether there will be a need for a 2nd backup infielder kind of depends on how the roster plays out.

    I can't get much excited about the speculation concerning Sizemore, but clearly the interest in Rajah Davis shows that Ryan might be interested in adding some sort of outfielder who can play defense and has a little pop. Talk about Wieters is kind of silly, why would you want to block Pinto and I really can't see Ryan doing anything at catcher after he added Suzuki.

    The whole DH corner outfield thing is still pretty messy and unclear. The outfield would be a lot clearer if Hicks and Arcia prove they are ready.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wise One View Post
    The Twins hedged their bets with both Kubel and Bartlett. Kubel may have been told things, but the cruel reality is if he does not look good in spring training, he will be a Red Wing.
    He maybe even has to look better than good. The Twins would save themselves $2 million just by sending him to Rochester for a couple weeks. That's a pretty big incentive. I really doubt Kubel wasn't promised anything, the confident reports about him making the roster are coming from his camp, what else would they say?

    Also agree that Miller just didn't choose his words wisely. There's no reason for the team to give Bartlet a 25 man spot now and there's absolutely no reason for them to tell that to Phil Miller.

  8. #28
    Senior Member All-Star Jim Crikket's Avatar
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    I really hadn't given it much thought before, but I'm not sure it's outside the realm of possibility that Ryan and others in the organization think Bartlett is essentially almost as good a bet as a potential upgrade over Florimon as Drew would be... and for a lot less money/risk.

    Bartlett and Drew aren't all that different if you assume both would be healthy enough to produce somewhere near their career averages and Bartlett is just under 2 years older, so the age difference is virtually meaningless if you assume you'd only be looking to get 1-3 years out of either one.

    Ryan's too smart to say anything publicly other than what he said, but just because they haven't seen Bartlett on a MLB diamond in a couple years doesn't mean they haven't had eyes watch him work out.

    A silent confidence that Bartlett could be for real, if that's the situation, is actually one of the few legitimate reasons I've heard for the Twins seemingly total lack of interest in Drew.

    Shortstop is just such an obvious candidate for offensive upgrade that I can't imagine the Twins wouldn't do anything to address it. So maybe they feel they have.
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  9. #29
    Gotta love stepping backwards. No idea why we should "hand" either of the two jobs out of spring training. I would rather have Colabello as an outfielder than Kubel and Florimon/Escobar over Bartlett. I would say its safer to see one of them on the DL ending ST a la Cole DeVries than coming with for the opening series in the Regular Season. Retreads are the Twins MOS though........

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post

    Also agree that Miller just didn't choose his words wisely. There's no reason for the team to give Bartlet a 25 man spot now and there's absolutely no reason for them to tell that to Phil Miller.





    Quote Originally Posted by SpitefulRabbit617 View Post
    Gotta love stepping backwards. No idea why we should "hand" either of the two jobs out of spring training.


    I would rather have Colabello as an outfielder than Kubel and Florimon/Escobar over Bartlett. I would say its safer to see one of them on the DL ending ST a la Cole DeVries than coming with for the opening series in the Regular Season.

    Retreads are the Twins MOS though........

    +1 to SpitefulRabbit

    And there is little basis for the attacking of the messenger.....while allowing for a mistake here and there, for the most part, Phil Miller has been a repertorially refreshing breath of beat-coverage-fresh air who hasn't been prone to a lot of sensationalistic or journalistic faux pas. His words are pretty unequivocally stated in reporting that both Kubel and Barlett appear to stand excellent chances on being on the opening day 25-man rosters with a decent shot to be starters.

    Spiteful, you answered you're own query quite distinctly, with both your opening and closing thoughts. It appears that the bargain-rate recycling of currently down-on-their-luck former Twins (with Santana still waiting in the wings) is the second prong in their two-pronged offseason marketing plan to stabilize attendance with:

    1) an upgraded rotation, and,

    2) throwing out some familiar names from the recent and more successful past,

    which Nicksaviking, is why they might whisper tidbits like this to Phil Miller. ( I wonder if Corey Koskie is being contemplated at One Twins Way as the platoon partner for Plouffe? /sarc). It actually might work out both marketing-wise and in on-the-field performance, but it's a much longer shot than actually getting better players to add to the Rotation upgrade prong in their apparent offseason Master Plan.
    Last edited by jokin; 01-10-2014 at 04:25 PM.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by AM. View Post
    Sizemore sounds like a nice idea (back in 2010, you could have made a good case for him to be set up to be one of the best players for the next decade), but realistically, I don't see that happening at all. We should want Hicks to get another shot at CF, and with the way Buxton is coming, it has to be sooner rather than later for Hicks to get another shot. If you sign Sizemore, then you likely have a muddled situation no matter how you work it.

    To answer the question at hand, it does seem quite plausible to me that Bartlett could, if healthy, be the Twins starting SS on Opening Day. That doesn't mean he would be much of upgrade, but that speaks more of their current options rather than his level of play.
    Signing Sizemore would merely be a stopgap and insurance policy- and would sign very cheaply. No need for it to ever become a muddled situation, the day they are convinced that first Hicks, or then Buxton are ready, Sizemore is gone.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim H View Post
    I was never particularly high on Bartlett's defense when he was with the Twins. I know that others were, and his defense seemed to improve a bit with Tampa. I always did like his offense, considering that there was no power. Still he seems a long shot to me. I would think that the chances of him being more than a backup at this stage of his career are very high against, and I am not sure that he is likely to be any clear upgrade to Escobar. Whether there will be a need for a 2nd backup infielder kind of depends on how the roster plays out.

    I can't get much excited about the speculation concerning Sizemore, but clearly the interest in Rajah Davis shows that Ryan might be interested in adding some sort of outfielder who can play defense and has a little pop. Talk about Wieters is kind of silly, why would you want to block Pinto and I really can't see Ryan doing anything at catcher after he added Suzuki.

    The whole DH corner outfield thing is still pretty messy and unclear. The outfield would be a lot clearer if Hicks and Arcia prove they are ready.
    You would want to consider Wieters because he's:

    a proven major leaguer catcher,
    who is young (only 3 years older than Pinto),
    big and strong (6'5"/240#),
    stays healthy and durable,
    switch hits,
    doesn't wilt as the season progresses (career .766 OPS 2nd half vs. .715 OPS 1st half),
    hits for power,
    above-average pitch framer,
    plus arm,
    plus pitch blocker,
    who the Orioles are actively shopping who still has 2 years of arb left before FA.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    You would want to consider Wieters because he's:

    a proven major leaguer catcher,
    who is young (only 3 years older than Pinto),
    big and strong (6'5"/240#),
    stays healthy and durable,
    switch hits,
    doesn't wilt as the season progresses (career .766 OPS 2nd half vs. .715 OPS 1st half),
    hits for power,
    above-average pitch framer,
    plus arm,
    plus pitch blocker,
    who the Orioles are actively shopping who still has 2 years of arb left before FA.
    Not a bad idea to get Weiters. What is the realistic cost to get such a player?

  14. #34
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    You would want to consider Wieters because he's:

    big and strong (6'5"/240#),
    6'5" catchers do not last long catching... Pinto has the perfect physique for a catcher (think Pudge Rodriguez instead of Joe Mauer)
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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Signing Sizemore would merely be a stopgap and insurance policy- and would sign very cheaply. No need for it to ever become a muddled situation, the day they are convinced that first Hicks, or then Buxton are ready, Sizemore is gone.
    Seizemore has an OPS+ of 84 since 2010 and has been almost ready to come back since June of last year. Good for him if he makes it back, but it will not be a vintage Sizemore. It would be the shell of Sizemore.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrylos View Post
    6'5" catchers do not last long catching... Pinto has the perfect physique for a catcher (think Pudge Rodriguez instead of Joe Mauer)
    I just want him to last long enough with the Twins before his next big FA contract with the Dodgers.
    Last edited by jokin; 01-10-2014 at 05:45 PM.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wise One View Post
    Seizemore has an OPS+ of 84 since 2010 and has been almost ready to come back since June of last year. Good for him if he makes it back, but it will not be a vintage Sizemore. It would be the shell of Sizemore.
    Yep, that's why I said if the Twins think that Sizemore has a shot at 75% of his old self, it's well worth the gamble of a minor league contract to find out.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wise One View Post
    Not a bad idea to get Weiters. What is the realistic cost to get such a player?
    2 years before FA and a motivated seller with strong payroll considerations in keeping other prized players on their roster which diminishes his value.... so.....oh, and the O's still have current MLB needs....but no question, the trade would cost a good prospect. But no one in all of MLB would expect a trade of Buxton or Sano for anything less than an Ace Starter (near the end of his contract) plus much more in return. The Orioles might bark up that tree to start negotiations, but would quickly find out that it's the wrong one.

  19. #39
    Senior Member Triple-A Thegrin's Avatar
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    Players that have been away from the game as long as Bartlett usually have a hard time hitting Major League hitting. I'm not sure he would be a hitting improvement over Florimon and he would definitely NOT be a fielding upgrade. I'd be shocked if he made the Twins Roster out of Spring Training.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    I just want him to last long enough with the Twins before his next big FA contract with the Dodgers.
    So what we are getting is a 2 year rental, effectively preventing the Twins from finding out what they really have in Pinto. After Weiters leaves you are back to finding a catcher for what could be a developing team with hopefully a number of young pitchers forcing their way onto the roster. I have no idea what it would cost in terms of prospects to get Weiters for 2 years but unless you could extend him when you traded for him, it would likely be too much for a rental that wouldn't be around when the team is actually getting good.

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