Thread: Paul Ryan!!!

Originally Posted by ChiTownTwinsFan

You know, if you ran for office I'd be very tempted to vote for you. And I'm fairly socialist. But I like how you stand up for the issues based on real facts, common sense and what is humanly ethical rather than twisted half-truths and scare tactics.

Heh, thanks. I just try to call it like I see it and rarely agree with any party on more than a few topics (even the Libertarian Party, they just happen to be the closest thing to "my" party). I have very little respect for anyone who follows party lines because, in this day and age, it doesn't make any sense to do so and shows just how little independent thinking that person is putting into their political opinions.

Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan

I'll simply repost this. The man cannot be trusted.

Attachment 2200

He didn't turn into a fiscal conservative until Obama took office. That should tell you all you need to know about the man and his politics.

It'd be nice if the country was given the option of voting for a real fiscal conservative, bonus points if the person doesn't come with crazy religious baggage. We haven't seen one of those in a long, long time. Eisenhower, maybe? But even Eisenhower's "fiscal conservatism" is in question.

Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp

Originally Posted by ChiTownTwinsFan

You know, if you ran for office I'd be very tempted to vote for you. And I'm fairly socialist. But I like how you stand up for the issues based on real facts, common sense and what is humanly ethical rather than twisted half-truths and scare tactics.

Heh, thanks. I just try to call it like I see it and rarely agree with any party on more than a few topics (even the Libertarian Party, they just happen to be the closest thing to "my" party). I have very little respect for anyone who follows party lines because, in this day and age, it doesn't make any sense to do so and shows just how little independent thinking that person is putting into their political opinions.

This kinda illustrates my point from several pages ago, when open-minded liberals and conservatives get together and actually talk through issues we often end up agreeing on quite a few things. I can't think of much that I agree with the President or MSNBC on but non-extremist liberals and I usually come to very similar conclusions if we can talk civilly for a while. I maintain that most people are mostly libertarian but don't realize it.

I have also found that for the most part that these discussions are highly ineffective when held on the interwebs. I have had or read several of these conversations with people from my motorcycle boards and then met them in person only to find a completely different individual than their posts were depicting. My main forum doesn't even allow these type of thread because they can be a very slippery slope. I have a feeling this would be an entirely different conversation over some beers.

Also odd that somebody identified themselves as "fairly socialist". Just don't hear that very often.

Originally Posted by Jocko87

I have a feeling this would be an entirely different conversation over some beers.

It would be. The sarcasm, overt hyperbole, and general good will from individuals would be a lot more palatable. Like you said, when we talk about actual policy, we'll come to some agreements if we're willing to give ideologically.

I guess my problem is some of the underlying assumptions that buttress libertarian thinking (likewise, I'm sure some feel the same way about liberalism or social conservatism), and it is in that argument, where we can get heated.

Originally Posted by Jocko87

Also odd that somebody identified themselves as "fairly socialist". Just don't hear that very often.

lol

In regards to voter ID> Why not have everyone v-chipped at birth so then all you would have to do is scan them in. If the goal of the voter ID was preventing fraud from happening they would offer plans that would prevent it from happening.

Originally Posted by old nurse

In regards to voter ID> Why not have everyone v-chipped at birth so then all you would have to do is scan them in. If the goal of the voter ID was preventing fraud from happening they would offer plans that would prevent it from happening.

Yeah thats the funny part - our advocate here even admitted it wont stop with these laws. Cant wait to hear his responses!

Keep America American!

Originally Posted by PseudoSABR

diehard, thanks for being thoughtful and thorough in responding, but it will take me a couple of days to retort.

still waiting

With regard to honest debate between "left" and "right" -- seriously the left/right dichotomy is a BIG factor in the problem here. Go check out The Political Compass for a quadrant represenation -- anyway, I agree that someone with some clout needs to make true debates actually occur. For instance, Dennis Kucinich or Ralph Nader vs. Ron Paul. Both of them know the great problem of the two party system and how the military-industrial and the Federal Reserve are, well, problems, but yet they have actual legitimate differences in view, differences that hearken back, some, to both the founding of the American system and the general role and function of government. THESE other debates? Two factions of the same damn party.