Thread: Paul Ryan!!!

Game changer!!!

Originally Posted by fatbeer

Game changer!!!

No, it's doubling down.

It's a wet dream for you, but my first reaction is that I don't see how this pick wins the White House. He's a career politician with no business experience. His right-wing fiscal policies certainly pair with Romney's perceived agenda, but I don't see how he curries any new voters nor does he seem to sure up any weaknesses.

It depends if Obama can convince us he eats babies or not. Worst economy ever and Obama is unwilling to fight on the issues.

Shuffling the chairs on the deck of the titanic at this point.

Ryan is direct, smart, and very fiscally focused. Those are all strong things to bring to the table. Let's be honest, many of the exchanges Ryan has had over his budget with the White House he has generally gotten the better of the argument - whether you agree with his approach or not - at least he's upfront and honest. He's not afraid to have a conversation about what's wrong.

To people like me - that is a welcome breath of fresh air.

He's pretty far right, though Levi. Shrinking government spending from 12.5% of GDP to 3.75? Vouchers? Getting rid of Medicaid? I don't see how this wins middleclass or swing votes. It will rally fiscal conservatives, but such people will have to throw off their "moderate" clothing.

Originally Posted by PseudoSABR

He's pretty far right, though Levi. Shrinking government spending from 12.5% of GDP to 3.75? Vouchers? Getting rid of Medicaid? I don't see how this wins middleclass or swing votes. It will rally fiscal conservatives, but such people will have to throw off their "moderate" clothing.

I generally agree with this. Ryan has talent but I can't shake the thought that he really speaks to a minority of the electorate. The other downside is that it changes the main focus of the campaign from the poor economy to fundamental change in the social safety net. I think people like the idea of reform in the abstract but balk when it is presented in real terms of cuts to medicare and whatnot. I also doubt massive tax cuts for the wealthy is a winner right now.

Originally Posted by fatbeer

It depends if Obama can convince us he eats babies or not. Worst economy ever and Obama is unwilling to fight on the issues.

And now Romney has moved the discussion from the economy to huge fiscal cuts.

The Democrats won't even have to exaggerate with Ryan just make sure voters know exactly what is in his budget.

Originally Posted by drjim

I generally agree with this. Ryan has talent but I can't shake the thought that he really speaks to a minority of the electorate. The other downside is that it changes the main focus of the campaign from the poor economy to fundamental change in the social safety net. I think people like the idea of reform in the abstract but balk when it is presented in real terms of cuts to medicare and whatnot. I also doubt massive tax cuts for the wealthy is a winner right now.

I agree with you as well. Ryan speaks to the minority of the electorate. The minority that actually pays taxes. Personally I could give a **** less what they guy down the street is paying, but evidently I'm in the vast minority there.

If we don't get a hold on spending, especially (but not only) entitlement spending, tax rates will not matter. I am glad Ryan had the balls to take on the issue. I just hope people don't dismiss Romney out of pure jealousy and envy of his worth, because it looks like that's the direction Obama has chosen to move his campaign.

Taxes are essentially a giant game of chicken now anyways. The more you raise them the more people will try to get out of them. The only "fair" tax is a flat rate with no BS deductions, credits, etc. Steve Forbes had this figured out 25 years ago, but my guess is the Democrats and Republicans can't resist taking this issue off the table since they both think they are right, squabbling over the relatively small amounts the majority of us actually end up paying while taxing/borrowing and spending us into oblivion.

About 60% will vote in this election, which means the 40% can keep there heads in the sand if they want. The rest of us will vote based on the real fiscal crisis we are facing. I want the economy fixed for the long term, and if that means benifits have to be ajusted downward in the short term so be it.

As for moderates who cares as long as Obama's team keeps accusing Rommney of major crimes with no evidence the moderates will stay home or vote Rommney.

Originally Posted by drjim

Originally Posted by PseudoSABR

He's pretty far right, though Levi. Shrinking government spending from 12.5% of GDP to 3.75? Vouchers? Getting rid of Medicaid? I don't see how this wins middleclass or swing votes. It will rally fiscal conservatives, but such people will have to throw off their "moderate" clothing.

I generally agree with this. Ryan has talent but I can't shake the thought that he really speaks to a minority of the electorate. The other downside is that it changes the main focus of the campaign from the poor economy to fundamental change in the social safety net. I think people like the idea of reform in the abstract but balk when it is presented in real terms of cuts to medicare and whatnot. I also doubt massive tax cuts for the wealthy is a winner right now.

Are you saying that the minority of Americans believe in cutting government spending? I just can't believe this, it's one of the greatest running jokes there is-the $2000 Kindle or the $25,000 toilet seat come to mind. This is why the Dem's get no traction with me, all the taxes in the world won't solve the real problem.

I like Ryan alot. Watch this three part series on the youtubes... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwv5E...feature=relmfu

Lots of straight talk about pain to come and he also addresses the main lib concerns of "evil corporations" and the "evil 1%" Removing the loopholes effectively raises taxes for them by actually taxing the real money. True leaders tackle hard issues, even if there is pain involved. I hope he can pull it off.

Lol at people thinking a republican president Will cut spending. When was the last time that happened?

And game changer? Yeah mitt really flipped the script choosing the epitome of sterotypical republicans as his running mate.

Ryan isn't a good choice. It's too easy to point out that his budget priorities hurt the poor and middle class and help the rich. And it won't take much to make seniors - who generally support Romney - get nervous about proposed cuts to things like medicaid. It's also hard to take anyone seriously about lowering government spending who isn't willing to make serious cuts to our defense spending. Ryan's just another right-wing flake. He energizes the birther base but he'll turn off moderates and independents.

It won't take much for Obama to scare seniors? Keep up the ads accusing Romney of murder. Good luck with that one. When you basically tell the voters you think there idiots who will buy anything you tell them it doesn't work out to well. If Obama wants the senior vote he better either start telling the truth or figure out how to become white.

Originally Posted by PseudoSABR

He's pretty far right, though Levi. Shrinking government spending from 12.5% of GDP to 3.75? Vouchers? Getting rid of Medicaid? I don't see how this wins middleclass or swing votes. It will rally fiscal conservatives, but such people will have to throw off their "moderate" clothing.

Jocko hit a lot of the points I was going to. Yes he's pretty far right fiscally, but that may be exactly what we need. The reality is that we can raise taxes and cut the military and STILL have a problem.

I, for one, appreciate someone willing to take on the actual problem even if it isn't politically popular. We should all be looking for that in our elected officials.

Originally Posted by TheLeviathan

Originally Posted by PseudoSABR

He's pretty far right, though Levi. Shrinking government spending from 12.5% of GDP to 3.75? Vouchers? Getting rid of Medicaid? I don't see how this wins middleclass or swing votes. It will rally fiscal conservatives, but such people will have to throw off their "moderate" clothing.

Jocko hit a lot of the points I was going to. Yes he's pretty far right fiscally, but that may be exactly what we need. The reality is that we can raise taxes and cut the military and STILL have a problem.

I, for one, appreciate someone willing to take on the actual problem even if it isn't politically popular. We should all be looking for that in our elected officials.

And the line of reasoning that the republicans want to make kids dumb and leave seniors in the streets doesn't fly with me either. As if republicans don't have kids and parents and people they care about. I firmly believe that nobody will take care of you better than yourself, certainly not the government, and we need to get back to that line of thinking.

Originally Posted by TheLeviathan

Originally Posted by PseudoSABR

He's pretty far right, though Levi. Shrinking government spending from 12.5% of GDP to 3.75? Vouchers? Getting rid of Medicaid? I don't see how this wins middleclass or swing votes. It will rally fiscal conservatives, but such people will have to throw off their "moderate" clothing.

Jocko hit a lot of the points I was going to. Yes he's pretty far right fiscally, but that may be exactly what we need. The reality is that we can raise taxes and cut the military and STILL have a problem.

I, for one, appreciate someone willing to take on the actual problem even if it isn't politically popular. We should all be looking for that in our elected officials.

Everyone is for getting rid of spending on frivolous toilet seats and the like, but that argument is totally disingenuous (I mean, seriously?). Newt, yes NEWT!, called the Ryan budget plan "suicide" and "right wing social engineering." His idea of budget cuts are totally extreme and imbalancely affects the poorest and weakest Americans. I'm just not sure who is this "we" you're talking about, because it's certainly not me or my extended family or friends.

In my opinion, the people who can afford to bare the burden of hard economic times should bare the burden. I don't buy that supply-side, job-creator crap for one second.

Originally Posted by Jocko87

Originally Posted by TheLeviathan

Originally Posted by PseudoSABR

He's pretty far right, though Levi. Shrinking government spending from 12.5% of GDP to 3.75? Vouchers? Getting rid of Medicaid? I don't see how this wins middleclass or swing votes. It will rally fiscal conservatives, but such people will have to throw off their "moderate" clothing.

Jocko hit a lot of the points I was going to. Yes he's pretty far right fiscally, but that may be exactly what we need. The reality is that we can raise taxes and cut the military and STILL have a problem.

I, for one, appreciate someone willing to take on the actual problem even if it isn't politically popular. We should all be looking for that in our elected officials.

And the line of reasoning that the republicans want to make kids dumb and leave seniors in the streets doesn't fly with me either. As if republicans don't have kids and parents and people they care about. I firmly believe that nobody will take care of you better than yourself, certainly not the government, and we need to get back to that line of thinking.

Right. But that's totally naive. What about people that can't or won't care for themselves? What about people without family to care for them? Yes, dumb kids and people in the streets is what you get. We should encourage people to be individually responsible, but not be so naive to believe that everyone is able to do so. Stop being so cheap; that's your problem.

This reminds of the dumbest advice in the world: poor people should just try harder. (I seriously can't believe Levi gave this guy any credibility.)

Originally Posted by fatbeer

It won't take much for Obama to scare seniors? Keep up the ads accusing Romney of murder. Good luck with that one. When you basically tell the voters you think there idiots who will buy anything you tell them it doesn't work out to well. If Obama wants the senior vote he better either start telling the truth or figure out how to become white.

Okay, this is driving me nuts:
there = a place "Tommy ran over there."
their = ownership "Tommy ran over their dog."
they're = they are "Tommy ran over their dog over there. They're pissed at him."

Thanks.

Originally Posted by PseudoSABR

This reminds of the dumbest advice in the world: poor people should just try harder.

This is where I really, really think Ryan will isolate the majority of his own political base. Even the most conservative Christian right-wingers see taking care of those who truly cannot take care of themselves as vital. Does Medicare/Medicaid need some major work? Absolutely. Are there people taking money from welfare/disability payments that could work and earn on their own? Rarely, but it happens. What many don't understand is that those programs are state-run programs with federal money. You want to bitch about the stereotypical FoxNews talking point of the Welfare mother on her iPhone? Bitch to your governor and state legislature for not doing a better screening job. You're pissed off about someone worth 6 figures+ being eligible for Medicaid? Talk to your state social services organization about their screening processes. Cutting federal money to these programs is like putting a band-aid on a chainsaw cut. The real issue needs to be getting these systems set up in a way that spends the federally provided funds on those who truly need it. I work every day with those who ABSOLUTELY need those funds to live their lives, and many of them would be screwed in Ryan's proposed system from his 'Sconnie days as they don't meet his standards of truly worthy of those who "deserve" our support.